Hugh Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Hello all, Just wondering if anybody could help in determining the unit served in by the soldier in the attached photo? You may notice that his cap badge is partially apparent, and I'm really not sure if there are any tell-tale signs in the uniform he is wearing. His name was James Gurr, and searching the Medal Rolls Index there appear to be 2 candidates, namely the Veterinary Corps and the Army Service Corps (as a Driver), but having looked at the cap badges of these respective regiments, I'm not sure that the cap badge in the photo fits with either of them. As a side note, I couldn't help wondering if the brooch/badge being worn by his wife is also a military cap badge?? Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 It looks like he is wearing spurs. Driver ASC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Hugh, can you zoom in on the cap badge (might be difficult) and the wife's brooch? Difficult to be too sure without seeing more clearly (though I suspect johnboy is correct with the regiment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Definitely a star shaped cap badge could be ASC, but there's also a 37291 Pte James A D Gurr Bedfordshire Regt, another star shaped cap badge, is he a relative? As Steven says above, can you zoom in on the cap badge and brooch? What I would say though is that the 24827 Dvr James Gurr ASC later RFA was with the Regular 6th Div, so he must have been a pre-War regular and either serving or a mobilised Reservist, I'd suggest you look for him pre-War in the 1911 census and on the kids birth certs where he should have Soldier listed as a profession, if he is the ASC man. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 9 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Thanks Johnboy. Excuse my complete ignorance, but presumably, if he is wearing spurs then his role would have been to drive horses (rather than motor vehicles)? If he would be driving teams of horses, would he also have been attached to other regiments (e.g. royal Artillery)? Steve, unfortunately the picture I uploaded is at the same resolution as I have of the original. So zooming into the attached pic is the same as if I zoomed into the original and uploaded it (if that makes sense :-) Thanks both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 RGA RFA would have their own drivers. Yes, a driver of a team of horses. As you mentioned ASC and Veterinary Corps ASC would be the banker of the two. The clincher will be a positive ID of the cap badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 9 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Thanks Sam,, He's my wife's great-grandfather, so I do know that he only has the one forename (I.e. James), so I think it is narrowed down to the 2 options I mentioned earlier (although, based on the responses here it does look likely it's the ASC. I have attached zoomed images the best I can, and also attached the ASC cap badge. I have to say, that to my untrained eye, the 2 badges don't look the same. The cap badge he has looks like it is a 5 or 6 point star, whereas the ASC cap badge attached (if it's correct) is either a 7 or 8 point star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 9 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2015 I can confirm that he was not in the Regular Army in 1911 (he was listed in the census as working as a steelworker, which is what he went back to doing after the war). I do know that he served in the Royal Navy in 1900-1901. Records show that he signed up to serve 12 years, but that he was invalided out in 1901. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 When were the children born? It'll help date the photo. Also what was his profession on marriage? The ASC mans Date of Entry and Div make him almost certainly as I said Regular or mobilised Reservist. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 do know that he served in the Royal Navy in 1900-1901. Records show that he signed up to serve 12 years, but that he was invalided out in 1901. Do you know from the record what caused him to be invalided out? To be working in as a steelworker 10 yrs later he would seem it was not too serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 9 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Thanks for the replies Sam and John. I will obtain the info you've requested and post tomorrow (i'm in Australia, so it's past my bedtime here already :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 It's not my area of expertise; but for what it's worth is that a Lanyard on his left shoulder? Also I would agree the cap badge looks 5 pointed; could it be a Canadian Maple Leaf? (Although there are no J Gurrs in the CEF service records)! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munce Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 From what we see of the cap badge, it could be the Guards Machine Gun Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Would a man in MGC have a bandolier? Did they not have a sleeve badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanewt Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Tampering again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Still looks like ASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munce Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 I agree - ASC. Although if it was Guards MG Battalion, would there have been a number of drivers on the strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 I'm not too sure. I think the guns may have been on carts moved by manpower. A horse might be ok for travelling distances on good ground but no good for moving the gun along trenches etc. Dog carts were used by other Armies but were banned by the British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Still looks like ASC. Agreed Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Sam's suggestion to review certificates proved a winner (silly of me not re-check in the first place). On his marriage cert in 1908 he is listed as a Driver with the ASC in Southill Barracks. So, with that in mind it seems that he left the navy in 1901, was in the ASC in 1908, was working as a steelworker in 1911, and was back in the Army by 1914. Can I ask, on his MIC what does the qualifying date of 8 Sep 1914 mean exactly? Is that the date on which he rejoined the army? The youngest girl in the photo was registered as born in June Qtr 1914, and she looks to me to be about 18 months old in the pick, which by my estimation places the photo as having been taken late 1915/early 1916. The naval record does not indicate why he was invalided out (I have attached the record). James Gurr Naval Record.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 So, based on his MIC, can we assume that he was transferred from the ASC to the Royal Field Artillery sometime after 1915 (given the presumed dating of the photo)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Hugh It's sometimes useful to be able to compare surviving service records for men with similar service numbers to see when potential transfers took place. In this case a service records survives for Fred Garstang 218521 Royal Field Artillery (prev. 28553 A.S.C.) which shows he was transferred as a Driver from the A.S.C. to R.F.A. on 29th January 1917. Given that James Gurr's R.F.A. number is two prior to Garstang's then I'd suggest that his transfer was around the same, if not on the same, date. In answer to another question the qualifying date of 8th September 1914 is the date he arrived in theatre. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 That's a great insight Steve. Thank you for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Does anyone have any ideas on whether James wife is wearing a military badge on her blouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 All the pieces fit then, too many people focus purely on the military records and forget the info available in Marriage/Birth/Death certs of Wives/Kids. The older kids Birth certs may give a clearer idea when he left the Army. The image of his wife's badge is too vague to take a guess. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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