8055Bell Posted 8 March , 2015 Share Posted 8 March , 2015 Hi All, I discovered this relative today and hope the forum may throw some light on the circumstances of his death. Herbert enlisted in the 7th Lancs Fusiliers and was wounded at Gallipoi (thats my next thread) in July 1915. He was evacuated to hospital in Alexandria and wrote home in early August 1915. The trail then goes cold until he was killed in action in Palestine on 6th June 1917, serving with 155th Machine Gun Company. He is the sole MGC casualty on that day and the other casualty in the Brigade (buried in Gaza War Cemetery) was 240605 J Adamson of 1/5th KOSB. I wonder if any Kings Own Scottish Borderer or 155th Brigade experts may know what was happening on this day? Thanks for looking and fingers crossed. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 8 March , 2015 Share Posted 8 March , 2015 WO95/4608 is the War Diary. It is unlikely that you will find out without reading what that has to say. It is not yet digital though. This period was between the Battles of 1st and 2nd Gaza, when there was holding lines by entrenchment and the occasional exchange of fire,and I suspect this was the reason for this casualty. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7359472 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 8 March , 2015 Share Posted 8 March , 2015 And again not yet digitised here are the 1/7th LF war diaries covering July 1915. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 9 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Thanks Both, I'll wait patiently. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dgb Posted 23 June , 2016 Share Posted 23 June , 2016 8055 Bell Intrigued to come across your post today Pte Herbert Bell 59137 was my grandfather's brother. I have been looking for information for some time without a great deal of luck, although a bit more coming to light recently. How was he related to you.? dgb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 23 June , 2016 Share Posted 23 June , 2016 On 3/8/2015 at 20:41, 8055Bell said: he was killed in action in Palestine on 6th June 1917, serving with 155th Machine Gun Company. He is the sole MGC casualty on that day and the other casualty in the Brigade (buried in Gaza War Cemetery) was 240605 J Adamson of 1/5th KOSB. I wonder if any Kings Own Scottish Borderer or 155th Brigade experts may know what was happening on this day? There could well be a connection with a Turkish trench raid on a position before Umberalla Hill, carried out the previous day, 5th June 1917, when several men from the 155th Brigades' 5th RSF were also killed. This is the same action in which 2/Lt John Manson Craig won the VC – see https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30215/supplement/7905 This is described in the divisional history pages 340-342 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 23 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2016 Hi DgB, We share a great great grandad Andrew Bell. His sone Richard was my GGrandad. My latest notes on Herbert and his brother are here Herbert Bell Was William Henry your Grandad? I have a copy of his Service Record if you're interested. I thought I was one of the last male members of the Bell family. Feel free to PM. I'm intrigued to know more. Also have a look at other relatives Arthur Bell and Alf Ridge who also fell in the Great War. Next week I'm going for a stroll on the Somme with 5+ relatives, following my Grandad's footsteps for the Centenary. I'll also be seeing where Arthur was killed at Ypres. Herbert will be another trip. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 23 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2016 Hi Michael, Thanks for the tip. SDGW says Herbert was killed in action, so it's less likley he was in the raid on the previous day. The tip is very helpful though. I dodn't know where the Brigade was at the time. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 23 June , 2016 Admin Share Posted 23 June , 2016 Soldiers effects records show he had 12 or less months qualifying service at time of death. I should learn to read , it says £13 not £3. £13 war gratuity (net) gives £16 gross. This gives 34 months qualifying service. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 23 June , 2016 Share Posted 23 June , 2016 1 hour ago, 8055Bell said: I dodn't know where the Brigade was at the time. This map of Gaza shows the position of Umbrella Hill where the Turkish trench raid was on the 155th Brigade, on the day before (5th June 1917) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 23 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2016 Thanks Both, Forgive my depth of ignorance, but were we attacking north into the green Turkish trenches? Or the opposite? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 23 June , 2016 Share Posted 23 June , 2016 Green here represents the Turkish lines Caveat - I offer the above map to illustrate the position of Umbrella Hill It should not be relied upon for specific trench details on 6th June 1917 Regret I did not make that clear at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 24 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2016 Thanks Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 25 June , 2016 Share Posted 25 June , 2016 I'd think any raid by the Turks would take place after dark. Maybe the timing of the raid crossed the midnight hours so he may have indeed been KIA on the 6th in a raid that hit just before midnight. Always a possible question of time. I recall a service record of an officer KIA in aGerman raid on his his unit. His file had numerous letters back& forth between his father & the army re: his pay not being correct. Seems the army felt he did not qualify for the last day of his pay based on the time of his death. They said he died too early to earn the day's pay !!!! Been yrs so can't recall name or unit but the owner showed it to me & wasamazed as I was at the army's action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 25 June , 2016 Share Posted 25 June , 2016 Loader Your point about the date of death and the date given to an night action not always being the same is a good and valid one, but it does not however apply in this case. The position which the Turks attacked was a “day post of eight other ranks ... on an elevation about a hundred and eighty yards in front of the British firing line. The morning 'stand to' had taken place without incident, sentries had been posted, and reliefs had settled down to get what rest they could under the hot rays of the rising sun. Suddenly, about 6.15 a.m., from a thicket about a hundred yards away, both sentries were shot dead, and some twenty Turks rushed the post.” The divisional history goes on to describe the skirmish and Craig's VC winning rescue of wounded and also mentions that 'B' Battery of the 267th Brigade very promptly brought their fire to bear on the Turkish redoubt at Umbrella Hill. I imaging that after such an action there would have been frequent exchanges of fire on this part of the front for the next few days and it is possible that this is how this casualty occurred. The divisional history goes on to say that “Within a week the 5th KOSB, Lt-Col A Kearsey, had taken revenge for this in their night raid on Sea Post...” regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 25 June , 2016 Share Posted 25 June , 2016 Thanks Mike for the additional info on the raid. I had not considered a day action raid so that settles that theory. Quite an interesting fight & a VC too. I had hoped the timeline might have solved the mystery but not this time. Hope the answer will be found soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 26 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2016 For my next trip to Kew WO 95/4608 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 27 June , 2016 Share Posted 27 June , 2016 Good luck Tim Please come back here & tell us if you find anything regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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