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Remembered Today:

Albert Facey 11Bn AIF


gilly100

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11 hours ago, Auimfo said:

 

And yes, we’re all well aware that the records contain inaccuracies both considerable at times and minor at others.  But thanks for letting us know. 👍🏻

 

 and: 

 

Quote

It’s a good thing you don’t own the bat and ball. 😫

 

Cheers,

Tim.

 

 

 

Good onya Tim. You've lost none of your  command of hilarious sarcasm but I see now you've mastered emoticons as well. 

Edited by Bryn
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It's  all the same, bat, ball, theirs, ours, their interpretation, our interpretation. Poor old Facey gets smashed and no one even dares to critique some of the Turk OH stuff and all their locked away records. Everything they have said is accurate of course. Pig's ****.😁😉

With our rifles and our faith. Pfft.

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Bryn,

 

Thought about it for a while but ultimately couldn’t be bothered.  Far more interesting things to do with my time.

 

😴 This is the closest to a yawn emoticon I could find.  

 

Cheers,

Tim.

Edited by Auimfo
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4 hours ago, gilly100 said:

It's  all the same, bat, ball, theirs, ours, their interpretation, our interpretation. Poor old Facey gets smashed and no one even dares to critique some of the Turk OH stuff and all their locked away records. Everything they have said is accurate of course. Pig's ****.😁😉

With our rifles and our faith. Pfft.

 

Gilly, I think you’re mixing your topics up again.  I’ve never ‘smashed’ Facey and nor am I going to critique Turkish records that I’ve never seen, researched or commented on anywhere.  They might be relevant to the machine-gun topic but they make not one iota of difference to a debate about Facey landing on 25/4 or not.

 

By the way, I see you’ve used two emoticons together - Bryn will be impressed.

 

Cheers,

Tim.

 

Edited by Auimfo
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😁😗🤗😋🥉for your quality sarcasm Tim. Love it but it's only a bronze. When there is a concise,  proper and fearless critique of the Ottoman narrative it will be a good day. Plenty could and should do it, but they won't. Facey unfortunately  is another by product of that narrative. If he is so unbelievable then he should never had been exploited to prosecute an argument in the first case. 

Ian

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  • 2 months later...
On 31/12/2018 at 19:19, Bryn said:

Gilly,

I've long noted in my own research that the 11Bn had possibly the worst record-keeping regarding dates of death etc. of any Australian unit at the Landing. 35 soldiers are recorded as having been killed on 2 May, when the battalion was not engaged in any fighting. Almost all, if not all, of these were certainly killed between 25 and 28-29 April, with evidence for many. 

My point being that anyone who blindly trusts an 11Bn document at the time of landing at Gallipoli...

Regards 

Bryn

Some of this lousy record keeping can be put down to all the sergeant majors responsible for keeping records within their company's were all killed or wounded the first day.  The casualties for 11bn were much higher the first day than many realise.

Ian

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  • 11 months later...

Just happened across this 2016 article examining Facey’s ‘A Fortunate Life’ which makes for interesting reading.

http://journal.media-culture.org.au/index.php/mcjournal/article/view/1132

 

it seems that a closer analysis of Facey’s drafts and final publication would suggest  a few claims that are perhaps more akin to a storyteller spinning a good yarn or perhaps the result of blurred recollections over many passing years before being recorded on paper.

 

His apparent wounding and subsequent discharge as recorded in the book does not tally with the official records and nor does Facey’s claim in an early draft (edited out of the final publication I believe) that he witnessed Kitchener at Gallipoli.  The former may be an effort to condense unrecorded events into a single occurrence but the latter claim would have been impossible as Kitchener visited in November and Facey was evacuated months earlier.
 

In any event, it just adds to the likelihood that Facey was indeed a good ‘yarn-spinner’ and while his book may be largely based on his life, not everything in it should necessarily be taken as gospel truth.

 

Cheers,

Tim.

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Thanks for posting this Tim, an interesting read.

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Tim,

 

reminds me of the many discussions had on the Old LH Assoc site about a ALH Writer in the 5th LHR and his book?

 

You know the one who wrote he was every where and saw every thing, makes you say hummm.

 

But all in all, a good story anyway, like Albert's


S.B

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I absolutely love the mingled hatred, contempt and despair expressed so eloquently in this and other threads relating to his pet obsessions by Gilly100. Keep up the good work chum!

Pete

Edited by PMHart
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On 28/02/2020 at 02:29, stevebecker said:

Tim,

 

reminds me of the many discussions had on the Old LH Assoc site


S.B

 

I do so miss that site. Such fun.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 03/03/2020 at 17:22, PMHart said:

I absolutely love the mingled hatred, contempt and despair expressed so eloquently in this and other threads relating to his pet obsessions by Gilly100. Keep up the good work chum!

Pete

Are you related to PHart who left in a 'superior than all disgust' so long ago?

 

No hatred, contempt or despair here, that is exclusively your domain going on previous performances.

 

I have researched a good deal on this, debunked some others assertions on how he wrote his story and given examples of his first day account marrying up nicely with others in his company that day. As I said so long ago, if he wasn't there, why would anyone use him to argue a no mg case?

I believe the jury is still out on all this. 

 

Is it welcome back until the next 'I am superior to all those who disagree with me' meltdown?

 

Ian

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Ian, forgive me if you already know this -

 

Albert Facey was at some point supposedly treated in No.8 General Hospital, for injuries he apparently received after he was buried by sandbags that were displaced by a shell and later from the effects of a bomb which was thrown by a Turkish infantryman at close quarters.

 

He had two brothers killed at Gallipoli, Joseph Facey of the 10th Light Horse, he was apparently shot and bayonetted 7 times to death. Joseph had served in the Boer War with the 6th West Australian Contingent and was the first man of the 6th Contingent to be wounded in 1901. Roy Barker Facey was also killed in action at Gallipoli being blown to pieces by a shell.

 

I am staying out of the debate but found the above so thought I would pass it on.


Cheers

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Thanks Redcoat

 

Yes, thanks, well aware on the Facey family sacrifice in WW1. Albert Facey had a son born in 1919 (by same name) who served with the 2/4th Machine Gun Battalion in WW2 and was killed in action on 15 February 1942 at Cemetery Hill, Buona Vista. Lies in a collective grave in Kranji War Cemetery. He was initially buried where killed with eight others in two separate graves, one with four, the other with five by denomination, RC and Protestant.

 

Facey's involvement with the RSL around this news saw him move away from further involvement I believe.

 

Ian

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  • 2 months later...

"As I said so long ago, if he wasn't there, why would anyone use him to argue a no mg case?" - Gilly100

 

Gilly, I can't see anywhere on this thread that anyone other than you has ever mentioned the MG's issue.  It's pointless trying to introduce an argument when neither I nor anyone else on this thread has ever postulated that idea to begin with.   You continue to confuse two separate threads, attempting to use someone else's ideas on one (which you disagree with anyway!) to justify your point of view on the other.  Sorry but it's nonsensical.

 

This thread has been based on the writings (drafts and final work) of Albert Facey compared to all available records and any research conducted to establish what if anything can be verified.  Thus far, your arguments have been passionate but seemingly based on the premise that 'records are wrong'.  There has been virtually nothing produced that could be called tangible or even persuasive.  You can't base an argument on an insistence that there's an absence of evidence.  On the contrary, all recorded facts, current research of those facts and indeed, Facey's own earlier drafts and notations, indicate that it's far more likely he was prepared to add some poetic licence to his tale.   

 

I think you need to stop taking it so personally.  No one's calling Facey a fake or a bull**** artist.  The only accusation is that he may have added a few things to beef up the story a bit, but that's no crime and fairly commonplace in autobiographies.  The book still does a great job in reflecting the times.

 

Nevertheless, to answer your initial question, despite it having absolutely no relevance to this debate;  probably because he read 'A Fortunate Life' and like thousands of others,  thought Facey was at the landing just because the book said so.

 

Can we please let go of the MG's on this thread now?

 

Cheers,

Tim.

Edited by Auimfo
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Mate,

 

I record him as;

 

FACEY    Joseph Thomas    396    Pte    10 LHR    C Sqn to L/Cpl ? (G) reported killed shot or by a knife during night patrol in front of Canterbury Slope buried Embarkation Pier Cemetery Gallipoli (Boer War 6 WAMI (499) WIA 15-5-01 thigh near Carolina) brothers Albert 11Bn and Roy 11Bn KIA cousins Stephen Lt DCM CdeG (B) 59Bn KIA, David 39Bn KIA & Thomas 6Bn KIA    N/R    Labourer    age 33    from Castlemaine Vic    Enl 1-10-14    KIA 14-9-15    NoK at Nyah Vic
 

Gilly has a nice write up of his death in there book "Gallipoli to Tripoli" history of the 10th LHR" by Browning and Gill

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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'Being disingenous.' A euphemism for 'attempting to deceive by not speaking the complete truth.' That's what immediately came to mind when reading Auimfo's "I can't see anywhere on this thread that anyone other than you has ever mentioned the MG's issue", aimed at gilly100, two posts back.

 

While technically a true statement, it is deliberately misleading, so I'll try to help set the record straight by pointing out that gilly100 did not say, at any point, that he was referring to this thread. A fact Auimfo is well aware of.

 

Edited by Bryn
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Again Bryn, you’ve failed to read the entire thread and clearly missed the several other references Gilly has made to the MG debate and Turkish records, attempting to relate them to this thread.  It was made pretty obvious on this occasion by Gilly beginning his comment with “if he wasn’t there...”, directly relating the point to this thread and his belief about Facey being at the landing.  But maybe you missed that also.


Otherwise, why post it here and not on the MG thread?  Or are you proposing that everyone should confirm in writing that what they’ve written in every post is actually meant for the thread it appears in?  

Perhaps you should re-read the meaning of disingenuous and contemplate your last post.  I think you might be riding door handles.

 

Cheers,

Tim.
 

 

Edited by Auimfo
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