Menin Gate - quiet nights?

[healdav]

I think I am right in saying that in WW2 the Germans pulled out in the afternoon and the ceremoy was held again in the evening.

[stevew]

I think I am right in saying that in WW2 the Germans pulled out in the afternoon and the ceremoy was held again in the evening.

I too have heard this...............I thought the Germans were still driving up the road as the buglers played the last post (or is that an urban myth??)

another one for Jacky or Aurel!

[Dragon]

re the picture i do not know the artists name

William Longstaff

[Jacky Platteeuw]

Not an urban myth!!! One of the pre-war buglers sounded the Last Post several times while the Germans were still on the Menin road. Officially the Ceremony resumed on 7 September 1944.

Jacky

[Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk]

The Battle damage on the Gate was caused by the BEF as they pulled out in 1940,our sappers blew the causeway,causing the Damage

[Guest bonza]

re the picture

G'day Russ

Longstaff was an Official War Artist.

The 'accepted' version is at the link "view Menin gate" in my post of Nov 7

Pat

[Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk]

G,Day to you too mate,was wodering if you or any Forum Members had any ideas as to where the Stone that was used in the Gates construction came from..read lots of books on the Gate,but no mention of where the materials came from,also did you see page of the Daily Mail today ? entitled DESECRATED,battlefield where 8,000 british troops died is turned into a rubbish tip...sad reading.

[Aurel Sercu]

(1) ... was wondering if you or any Forum Members had any ideas as to where the Stone that was used in the Gates construction came from..read lots of books on the Gate,but no mention of where the materials came from,

(2) also did you see page of the Daily Mail today ? entitled DESECRATED,battlefield where 8,000 british troops died is turned into a rubbish tip...sad reading.

Russell,

(1) From D. Dendooven, Menenpoort & Last Post, p. 71 : only a brief mention of the name "Euvillesteen" (Euville Stone). I think I also remember (parts ?) Portland stone, like the headstones in CWGC cemeteries ?

But even so I don't know where the stone came from.

(2) Where was that ?

Aurel

[Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk]

Hello Aurel,the Battlefield is at Auchy,near Loos,and it is being developed as a rubbish site.

[Guest bonza]

Russ

No didn't see the article. Yet.

Aurel

Apparently the origional Lions from the wartime Menin Gate are in the Australian War Memorial. How do the Locals feel about that?

Pat

[Aurel Sercu]

Apparently the origional Lions from the wartime Menin Gate are in the Australian War Memorial. How do the Locals feel about that?

Pat

Actually, Pat, I'm afraid that 99% of the locals don't feel anything, for they don't know. (Or am I too pessimistic in my estimate ?)

And one can hardly expect them to remember the Lions being sent to Australia, as this happened in 1936. (Taken from the above-mentioned publication - which also exists in English - p. 55 (3 pages about these original lions).)

Aurel

[Guest bonza]

Aurel

If the discussion was under another category, I would admit to being surpised by your estimate of 99%.

There appeared to be a general tendency throughout the Battlefield area to explain any piece of missing gear with the notation "Australians in the Area", but whenever they got away with national icons, such as The Ashes or Americas Cup, the local Press seemed to go ballistic.

Pat

But!

Aurel

Your countrymen & yourself may be satisfied to know that the Lions have always been treated with respect. The opening lines from the following link clearly make that point, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET MUCH MORE PROMINENT THAN THAT.

This link LINK TO MENIN LIONS

[petrick]

pat

could it be the australian war trophy comittee was at it again. Seems the australians were the only ones with an official group of trophy hunters.

Gives another ring to WTC,

coo-ee

patrick

[Guest bonza]

Perhaps even the WTC would have been hard - pressed to find anything left to scrounge by 1936, Petrick.

We cannot know whether the Belgian Government had kept the Lions in protective custody until they believed the danger had passed, when...

Maybe, for the sake of international goodwill, we should accept the official line that they were an inter-government gift in appreciation of friendship offered & services rendered. That is a nice contrast to the Turkish Government, who gave us an area of ANZAC Cove, and yet the history was almost opposite.

ooRoo

Pat

[Jacky Platteeuw]

Maybe, for the sake of international goodwill, we should accept the official line that they were an inter-government gift in appreciation of friendship offered & services rendered.

And this is what happened. There are pictures of the lions being put on a train in the station of Ieper. Won't comment on other postings.

Jacky

[Guest bonza]

Won't comment on other postings.

Jacky

Aha!

But Jacky, does that not constitute a pertinent comment?

There is another Jackie who is not far from you. He's there because he believed that everyone should be able to comment, or not comment, as they wished.

ooRoo

Pat

[Aurel Sercu]

Hi Pat,

My apologies for not replying to your posting (about 5 postings ago, the one with the link to the Menin Gates in Australia). Maybe you expected me to ? The reason simply is that I am not sure I understand. And I don't want to misunderstand. (English is not my mother tongue.)

But that the Menin Gate Lions are and have always been treated with respect, I don't have the slightest doubt about that.

Aurel

[Guest bonza]

G'day Aurel

The link is to a Virtual Tour of the War Memorial in Canberra.

These are the very first lines in that tour.

"The first objects that visitors encounter on entering the Memorial are two medieval stone lions that previously stood at the gateway of the Menin Road at Ieper and were damaged during the First World War. The lions were presented by the City of Ieper to the Memorial in 1936"

The Memorial is actually one of the most-visited places in Australia, and is particularly popular with overseas visitors. The fact that the Lions are the first objects seen, and that the Menin Gate Painting is so effectively displayed, indicates to a very wide audience the value placed on Ypres in Australia's History.

My intention was to assure you that the gift was appreciated. You have recognised that, and so the only apologies warranted should be mine for not making that point clearer.

The fact that I have engaged in what MIGHT be interpreted as disrespectful discussion on the Lions does send a confusing message, but you may be assured that there is no disrespect on the part of either party.

Best Regards

Pat

[Aurel Sercu]

Of course Pat, no disrespect. I know.

It's just that I did not understand all you said. (My fault of course. Regarding my "99%" and your "to go ballistic". As to the latter my dictionary didn't help me out. = Aggressive ? Furious ?)

And I know that the Menin Gate Lions are very well known in Australia. It seems to me that the number of Australian visitors to the Salient knowing the origin of the Lions is a multiple of the number of local inhabitants in Ypres who know ! But I suppose that is no surprise. an Australian coming here is not the "average" Australian I guess.

Aurel

[Guest bonza]

Aurel

There is no dictionary that could cover everything, but aggressive/ furious was what I meant.

However, I cannot agree that the visitors to Flanders might not be "Average Australians"

I have been here 65 years and could not define one. On expressing MY view for the very first time on this Forum, I was answered by several other Australians assuring the world that I did not speak for them.

However, if asked to define the Ideal Australian, I might place more emphasis on having an ability to laugh at or with ANYBODY, rather than conforming to what might be expected by others.

I have quoted it before, but suitable guidance might be contained in

"Life is mostly Froth & Bubble, Two things stand like Stone

Kindness in another's trouble, Courage in your own"

ooRoo

Pat

[Aurel Sercu]

However, I cannot agree that the visitors to Flanders might not be "Average Australians"

Pat,

Lest there should be some understanding...

What I meant was that the "average Australian" does not visit the Ypres Salient. That's all. (Which is not exactly the same as saying that the Australian visitor to the Salient is not "average". If you know what I mean.

And it is very understandable and expectable that those who do come over know about the Menin Gate Lions.

Aurel

[Guest bonza]

G'day Agen Aurel

As demonstrably the most misunderstood contributor to this forum, I feel qualified to say "An Impossible Dream" English aint my native tongue eiver, mate.

Not having learnt from previous exchanges, I cannot allow the Average Dumb Australian Enigma handle to lapse.

You see lotsa people up your way think that all Australians can be neatly bundled - up and put into any convenient bin. Evidence of this may be seen in recent threads where people who expend considerable forum space on preaching the viirtues of cosideration, tolerance etc etc etc, joyfully sink the slipper if they think they have one of us on the canvass. If things get a bit hot in the kitchen, they don't get out. They wait a few moments and if an impartial moderator doesn't remove the embarrassing bits for them, they press the REPORT icon, that's the one up the top so's they can see it quickly, and Bobsyeruncle.

The Benelovent Guardian Angels AKA Moderators are omnipresent. Besides direct intervention, they will organise diversionary tactics by either starting another thread about the wierdness of downunda practices eg Haka, or give official sanction to threads such as "don't Aussies talk funny". Corse we know they're only pissed - off because their ancestors got it wrong. They should have left the crooks in England & come out here themselves.

The classic ruse was appointing an "Australian" moderator. He's as Australian as Coronation Street or Arfer Dailey, nowot imean.

If things are goin a bit slow the get someone to trawl through the papers, or internet, and if ever Australia gets beaten at Tiddley - winks or somethig similar, somewhere in the world, miraculously a pertinent thread appears and in goes the boot again.

To retrieve something from this thread, however, might I submit the the AWM picture below.

Full details of this Trophy are contained on the AWM site under Amiens Gun.

Petrick is old enough, and capable enough, of defending himself should the situation arise. To prevent it arising due to a misunderstanding, it may be helpful if it is known that the Trophy was aquired by the War Trophy Committe and sent to Australia. The Barrel is on display, but in a less prominent position than are the Menin Lions.

Never being one to presume what anoyher person is thinking, there may be some justification for my thinking that Petrick's post might be inferring that if the WTC can manage a 900 tonne Amiens Gun, a couple of statues would be childs play. Incidently, the AWM site shows several pics of the gun in-transit.

Finis

Pat

[Guest PatRiot]

My Goodness

Did the Australians really have an official organisation to collect souvenirs such as this.

Petrick

How on earth would you get to know about them.

Pat

[petrick]

to pat, pat and ....this is getting confusing

Pat..Bonza..mate, no worries and noo offences on my behalf too . I know the lions are treated with the utmost respect and know there off better at the AWM then iff they would still be somewere stuffed away or on an entrence of some belgium property. And ofcourse thanks to the belgiums who knew what the menin gate signified for the australians (amongst others...not want to tred on anymore toes)

Just was aiming to get that twinkle in your eye.

And pat...riot. Its just history...and might i say why wouldn't they ave? Keen as evry soldier was to get a good war souvenir, for himelf his famely for on a hatebelt and so ons. Who was it who said...to the victor the spoils?????

With so many cobbers out for a scrounge the government couldn't do anything els as to get their first (merely joking here)before al the good ones were gone.

coo-ee

patrick

[ianw]

Personally , I can think of no better place for the Lions. They stand proudly at the other side of the globe from whence men (not just Australians) came to defend Liberty and die doing it. They tell the story of Ypres and I would dearly like to visit them and the AWM one day. Meantime I have Ypres itself not too far away, so can rest content.

As for the Pom/Aussie needle - well I enjoy the sporting banter as much as the next man but remember that my Great Uncle left the UK in 1911 and eventually died with the 11th Light Horse in 1917. It's still a special relationship.