Where is this? - France or England?

[PLGr]

Hi

I'm hoping someone can identify where this photo was taken. Was it in France or in England?

Photo has just come to light after an elderly uncle was clearing out things. My grandfather Pte Edward Albert (Ted) Griffiths - 1st Canterbury Infantry Battalion, NZEF - is standing second from right.

He fought in France from Dec 1916, fought in Battle of Messines 1917, and then, according to his NZ war records, in August 1917 was slightly (accidentally) injured at Regina Camp (west of Ploegsteert) - was admitted to 3/Aust Gen Hosp at Abberville Aug 1917 - then to 8/9th Base Depot at Etaples Sep 1917 & classified "C" class by NZEF Trav. Med. Board in Nov 1917. He was admitted to 1 NZ Gen Hosp at Brockenhurst Dec 1917, diagnosed as suffering from neurasthenia (sort of 'shellshock') and shipped home to NZ Feb 1918.

Did Brockenhurst have tents? - or is this still in France? Looks like the 3 medical staff are holding flowers, bottle and tins - as celebration? My grandfather and one other soldier (lemon-squeezer hat) are NZers - are the other soldiers kiwis - or from different countries?

Any help much appreciated.

P

[Bombadier]

One man (your grandfather) in hospital blues so I would suggest England. Interesting group as at least 2 appear to be German by their headgear.

Nigel

[Moonraker]

German PoWs were sometimes attached to military hospitals in Britain. I've never been too sure whether this would have been as orderlies to help with patient care (as this photo might suggest) or as labourers involved with maintenance, gardening and the like - or both.

Moonraker

[kenf48]

There were tents/marquees at Brockenhurst

see http://www.digitalnz.org/records?page=3&text=%28%28+Patients+at+Brockenhurst%2C+WW1%29%29+AND+-collection%3A%22NZMuseums%22

Sports day/soldiers and nurses also (if you are in NZ http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/account/3009/object/165755/New_Zealanders_in_Brockenhurst#prettyPhoto)

A simple Google search shows a number of folk in NZ who are interested and may be able to confirm.

There were also tents at Etaples but as there was also a POW compound I don't think Germans would be wandering about.

Ken

[PLGr]

Thank you for all those interesting and very useful bits of info. So I can assume it is Brockenhurst. Hadn't realised German POWs sometimes attached to English hospitals.

P

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A very cosmopolitan group with troops from Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and possibly other countries also.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Did Brockenhurst have tents? -

Your photograph may not have been taken at Balmer Lawn ( Brockenhurst ) Hospital in Hampshire, as I saw a note that the ' Brockenhurst ' Hospital was for New Zealand officers only ? if that was correct, that would rule out your photo as having been taken there.

LF

[PLGr]

Brockenhurst hospital (1 NZ Gen Hosp from July 1916) encompassed at least two major local buildings - one of which, the Balmer Lawn was for officers - as well as huts.

Yes, I wondered whether the two Aussies in the photo meant it could not be taken at Brockenhurst as it was a NZ hospital - but did Brockenhurst take in patients from other countries or only NZ soldiers?

P

[jacksdad]

I am not sure that Brockenhurst, being a New Zealand Stationary Hospital in England, would have such a mixture of nationalities - that would more likely be a CCS or Stationary Hospital in France.

I note that his file records that he was, at one stage, at the 3rd Australian Stationary Hospital in Abbeville. they are all going to have tents so it is a needle in a hay stack search.

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/ART03529/

but I think that you would be best to narrow it down to those mentioned in the military file of the bloke

Cheers Rodg

[jacksdad]

The plan shows big long tents in block 'C' similar to the one behind in the photo.

https://www.strongspace.com/pacific/public/TTL/mapdata/Plan-of-No.-3-Australian-General-Hospital---Butler.png

try this site:

http://throughtheselines.com.au/research/Abbeville

for the location and photos

[b3rn]

The nurse looks familiar. Connie Keys?

But I'm not much good at matching faces.

[PLGr]

Thank you RogerShephard - Good map and photo - Presumably Block C at Abbeville was the same as the next door Block D as shown in the photo in your link - and so the tents, lighting poles and even little tree are the same in the link's July 1916 photo and mine Oct/Sep 1917. Main addition is the duckboard.

So being at Abbeville rather than Brockenhurst would explain more nationalities - but what about apparently German POWs?

b3rn - could be Connie Keys but I'm not sure - parting is on a different side

[catfishmo]

I find two guys in this particularly interesting.

First is the guy in the tie and white lapels--hospital blues. I think there has been some debate whether hospital blues were ever worn on the Front or only in England--thus would suggest England.

The second guy is the one on the far right: pant legs rolled up, belted with a string--appears to be makeshift clothing which could suggest the Front.

~Ginger

[b3rn]

Hi Ginger, I'm no expert on hospital blues - but they must have been worn in Europe. Here's a photo taken at Le Treport:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=143372

[catfishmo]

Very interesting indeed--not to mention fantastic pictures throughout the thread. Thanks so much!

If anyone has any more info on hospital blues in France, I'd love to hear about it--was it at all hospitals? I assume only at stationary hospitals and not casualty clearing stations.

~Ginger

[Sue Light]

Hospital blues were pretty universal in France after the very early days of war. There are photos of men in hospital blues sitting in hospital wards, other parts of hospitals, convalescent camps - probably not at casualty clearing stations. This is the YMCA hut at No.10 General Hospital Rouen, image c/o the Imperial War Museum

[PLGr]

The original photo appears to have been taken at Abbeville - if so, it would have been taken btw 11August 1917 - 19 Sept 1917, the dates my grandfather was admitted and discharged. The photo in the link below is dated 1 July 1917 - 3rd Aust Gen Hosp at Abbeville. It shows D block (which was next to C Block) - but there are no duckboards.

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P03088.018/

[catfishmo]

Hospital blues were pretty universal in France after the very early days of war. There are photos of men in hospital blues sitting in hospital wards, other parts of hospitals, convalescent camps - probably not at casualty clearing stations. This is the YMCA hut at No.10 General Hospital Rouen, image c/o the Imperial War Museum

Another great pic. Thanks, Sue.

~Ginger

[B Henley]

This is a picture I have of No.10 British General Hospital in Rouen, France. The tents look very similar but then I guess they would have done across France, my Great Grandfather was in the R.A.M.C. and at St Nazaire and then Rouen towards the end of the war. 

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, B Henley said:

This is a picture I have of No.10 British General Hospital in Rouen, France. The tents look very similar but then I guess they would have done across France, my Great Grandfather was in the R.A.M.C. and at St Nazaire and then Rouen towards the end of the war. 

It’s interesting to see the two flags flying side by side in a style to ensure that they can be seen from above.  A Red Cross on the left and a Union Flag on the right.  I think that is a special arrangement as a precaution against any excuse for mistaken aerial bombing.

Edited 13 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[B Henley]

On 13/09/2022 at 15:41, B Henley said:

This is a picture I have of No.10 British General Hospital in Rouen, France. The tents look very similar but then I guess they would have done across France, my Great Grandfather was in the R.A.M.C. and at St Nazaire and then Rouen towards the end of the war. 

 

22 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s interesting to see the two flags flying side by side in a style to ensure that they can be seen from above.  A Red Cross on the left and a Union Flag on the right.  I think that is a special arrangement as a precaution against any excuse for mistaken aerial bombing.

Yes never realised the significance of the side by side flags.

 

 

On 10/02/2015 at 15:37, Sue Light said:

Hospital blues were pretty universal in France after the very early days of war. There are photos of men in hospital blues sitting in hospital wards, other parts of hospitals, convalescent camps - probably not at casualty clearing stations. This is the YMCA hut at No.10 General Hospital Rouen, image c/o the Imperial War Museum

Have you come across any other pictures of No.10 General Hospital?  

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, B Henley said:

Have you come across any other pictures of No.10 General Hospital?  

There will be a number in the Imperial War Museum’s collection, where that one came from.  Sue Light passed away some time ago I’m afraid.

Edited 14 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[B Henley]

4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

There will be a number in the Imperial War Museum’s collection, where that one came from.  Sue Light passed away some time ago I’m afraid.

Thanks for letting me know. 

[geraint]

I wonder what game of cards is being played on the table to the right, and the table immediately behind it. There doesn't seem to be any money shown.

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, geraint said:

I wonder what game of cards is being played on the table to the right, and the table immediately behind it. There doesn't seem to be any money shown.

Playing for money (or ‘gambling’ of any kind) was against King’s Regulations so when it did occur it was out-of-sight.  Any NCO, or officer not taking action to stop it was himself committing an offence.  It was taken quite seriously because a man in debt could undermine good order and discipline and the chain of command.

Edited 14 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE