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Remembered Today:

York and Lancaster Regiment, 10th (Service) Battalion


Mags25
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Hi everyone, I'm new to this website. I have been searching for information about my great uncle. His name is William Thomas Hughes, he was in the 10th (Service) Battalion, Regimental No 19636. The information I have found so far is that he was killed on 26th September 1915 at the battle of Loos from wounds, he has no known grave but is commemorated on the wall at Loos Dud Corner Cemetery, France. What I can't understand is if he was killed from wounds should he have a grave, or am I being naive? I was also wondering if anyone could help me find further information about him, or if there are any photographs of him or with other soldiers in his regiment and where they might be found please. Thanks in advance. Mags

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Mags

Firstly welcome to the Forum... Health Warning - It can be addictive. :)

When he died from his wounds he would have been buried. However such was the effects of artillery, the weather conditions and the movements of battle that like many others his grave could not been found after the war and as a consequence he is commemorated on the Memorial Wall.

Dave

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Hi everyone, I'm new to this website. I have been searching for information about my great uncle. His name is William Thomas Hughes, he was in the 10th (Service) Battalion, Regimental No 19636. The information I have found so far is that he was killed on 26th September 1915 at the battle of Loos from wounds, he has no known grave but is commemorated on the wall at Loos Dud Corner Cemetery, France. What I can't understand is if he was killed from wounds should he have a grave, or am I being naive? I was also wondering if anyone could help me find further information about him, or if there are any photographs of him or with other soldiers in his regiment and where they might be found please. Thanks in advance. Mags

Mags the general policy when someone died of wounds near the front line (as opposed to in a field hospital later), is that they would quickly receive a field burial (often hasty if fighting was still going on, and generally near the regimental aid post, or field dressing station).

The grave was supposed to be marked and recorded (by map reference) so that it could be exhumed later and reburied in a larger, more suitable site, with full honours. What happened in some actions, especially in the early war years (and again from March to August 1918), was that the hasty burial sites were destroyed by shellfire in subsequent actions before any exhumation could take place. In these circumstances the graves were frequently utterly destroyed and any remains scattered widely.

That is how such men ended up with no known grave.

Afternote: I see that I have been beaten to the post by Heritage Plus, but I will leave this as a contribution in answer to your query.

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Far better put than mine though Frogsmile :thumbsup:

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Far better put than mine though Frogsmile :thumbsup:

Well a joint effort in the finest traditions of the forum let's say :thumbsup:

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Thank you for your quick reply, your explanation makes things clearer. I think I read on here that someone has paperwork about soldiers of the 10th service battalion, would they perhaps have some information to give me. I also wonder if anyone knows of a website or archive that might have soldiers photographs from my great uncles service. I managed to get his will when they were released on another website.

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The York and Lancaster regiment is at Clifton Park museum & archives service in Rotherham . You can search their catalogue on line.

His war gratuity of £3/10/00 ( £3.50 ) was paid to his widow Mabel in Oct 1919.

He landed in France 10 Sept 1915 . There are service papers on Ancestry for a William Thomas Hughes York & Lancs service number 4353 born Wolverhampton 1882. Married to Mabel Smith in Grimethorpe near Barnsley 1906 , children Joseph from before marriage , Gladys May 1912 & Harold 1914. Note appears to read "absconded regiment "

Could he have re-enlisted ?

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Thank you for the information Ellis, I did get the info about his wife and children from Ancestry, didn't know about the absconding bit though he was in his 30s when he went to France and was killed 16 days after landing. I need to check out that absconding bit. I will also have a ride out to Clifton Park Archives to see if I can find out more. I wonder if they might have photos. He does say on his 1914 records that he had a previous military record I wonder when.

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Mags

For £3.30 can download a copy of the Battalion's War Diary. which will tell you what they were doing day by day, here:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353170

Dave

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Thank you for the information Ellis, I did get the info about his wife and children from Ancestry, didn't know about the absconding bit though he was in his 30s when he went to France and was killed 16 days after landing. I need to check out that absconding bit. I will also have a ride out to Clifton Park Archives to see if I can find out more. I wonder if they might have photos. He does say on his 1914 records that he had a previous military record I wonder when.

Mags he might have previously served with the auxiliary forces (part-time citizen soldiers) to get a bit of extra money. If before 1908 it would have been with a Militia battalion of his local regiment (probably York & Lancs but depending upon where he was living) and, if after 1908, with the Territorial Force who were formed from the Militia and other auxiliary units in that year. Whichever the case he would have received an annual cash "bounty" providing that he attended a minimum number of "drill nights" in the year and attended the fortnight long annual training camp. This money was especially useful to men of the working classes at a time when work was often either, not secure, or seasonal.

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Hello there Mags, please beware that the York and Lancaster Regimental Museum at Clifton Park Rotherham doesn't open on a Friday and perhaps even shorter hours now that the Government as ordered Councils to massacre their budgets.

Go on line and check their openings.

The York and Lancaster Regiment are my favourite Regiment as it was my granddads.

Cheers Roger.

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I don't think the opening hours are particularly about budgets being 'massacred'. The Y&L archives have only recently been made available to the public after an archivist was appointed to carry out 18 months of work to catalogue them and prepare them for public use. On this day when Rotherham Borough Council is in the news for all the wrong reasons, providing access to this fantastic resource is perhaps one of the better things they have done in recent times.

The opening hours as of January this year are:

  • Monday and Tuesday - Closed
  • Wednesday to Friday - 10am to 5pm
  • Saturday - 10am to 1pm, 2pm to 5pm
  • Sunday - Closed

You will find the staff extremely helpful and I can highly reccommend a visit to see the documents and some 7000 photographs. Having helped with the cataloguing project for over a year, I can say with confidence that the information available, especially the WW1 photographs and records, is one of the best free military resources available in Yorkshire.

The catalogue can be searched on line at http://195.188.200.151/CalmView/advanced.aspx?src=DServe.Catalog

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Oh and yes, there is some information and a few photographs of the 10th Bn. The attestation record books are a useful source of information but are only available from 1915 (I think).

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Thank you Roger and Badger. I have made a note of the opening times. It would be wonderful if there is a photo of my grand uncle. Just out of interest was the York Lancs also called the Green Howards? I appreciate the help all the people on this thread have given me and I would like to add you have made me feel welcome.

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Thank you Roger and Badger. I have made a note of the opening times. It would be wonderful if there is a photo of my grand uncle. Just out of interest was the York Lancs also called the Green Howards? I appreciate the help all the people on this thread have given me and I would like to add you have made me feel welcome.

No Mags, the York & Lancs and the Green Howards were entirely different regiments. The Green Howards were a much older regiment and originally known as the 19th (1st Yorkshire North Riding) Regiment of Foot. The York & Lancs were formed from a merger of two more junior regiments as part of an Army reorganistaion in July 1881. The 1st Battalion Y&L had previously been the 65th (2nd Yorkshire North Riding) Regiment and the 2nd Battalion Y&L had previously been the 84th (York and Lancaster) Regiment. This latter title was because when first raised the 84th had actually been formed from men recruited in the two cities, York and Lancaster. It's not really relevant to your Great Uncle but if you want to know more just look up the "Cardwell Reforms" online. Wikipedia explains it quite well.

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Badger123456 Totally agree the staff at Roth Archives are extremely helpful.

Mags25 If you e mail them your request for the source information they will have it ready for you . Not all the records are kept at the Clifton Park archives . Stored in the "archives" archives so to speak .

On my last visit I inspected the stored written requests from families to have their fallen servicemens names inscribed on the memorial in the park . Some remarkable and touching letters from 1922

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Badger123456, thank you for the clarification on the hours and also for the sterling work you have done on this project.

It was a few years ago I last went to the Y&L museum when it was down in the centre of Rotherham, then I went up to Clifton Park but it was shut on a Friday.

I submitted copies of my granddads service papers to the specials collection officer that was dealing with the Y&L's I believe he as left, so you can see how out of date I am with it.

Once again thank you.

Cheers Roger.

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Thanks again Frogsmile, you certainly know your stuff. Great idea to contact them first Ellis thanks for the heads up. Another couple of questions, is there a website like this one that has records for the Royal Marines from WW1 and records for pilots killed in WW2 please?

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Thanks again Frogsmile, you certainly know your stuff. Great idea to contact them first Ellis thanks for the heads up. Another couple of questions, is there a website like this one that has records for the Royal Marines from WW1 and records for pilots killed in WW2 please?

In WW1 the Royal Marines were divided into two separate units Mags. They were the Royal Marines Light Infantry, whose dress uniform was scarlet, and the Royal Marines Artillery, whose dress uniform was blue and remarkably similar to that worn by the Royal Artillery. You can seek information about those who served in them on this website and they also have a regimental museum at Portsmouth: http://www.royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk/

The following website might be a good place to start with your RAF research: http://www.worldwar2exraf.co.uk/

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  • 3 years later...

I am researching my Great Grandfather, Pte, George Ganderton, 13901, died April 24th 1917. I have downloaded the records from the national archives which show that orders were given for a divisional attack 21st April. The next set of orders weren’t delivered until 27th April. During this time he died and I’d like to know anything about which company he might have been in or what role he was undertaking. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated!

 

regards,

 

L Parker

Captain

Royal Engineers

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