Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Help wanted with VAD Hospital Patient List


Squadron Leader
 Share

Recommended Posts

We would really appreciate any help that anyone can give in trying to put some 'bones' on the following list of soldiers who were all patients at the VAD Hospital Burgage Manor in Southwell from 1915 to 1919.

We have some information on CSM Mounteney - but can't track down his citation for the DCM he won. Equally we have some information on Pvt Knight.

Ultimately we would like to track down some living relatives of these people to invite to our planned commemorative event over the weekend of 13th and 14th June this year. More details can be found on our FACEBOOK page 'Memories of a House at War'.

Any snippets of information would be very gratefully received!!

List as follows:

BURGAGE MANOR RED CROSS HOSPITAL

PATIENT LIST 1915

1. Pvt S Hill No. 8974 2nd East Yorkshire Regiment

2. Sgt H Brown No. 9306 1st Royal Warwickshire Regiment

3. Pvt E Leaman No. 8141 Royal Artillery

4. Corp J E Unwin, 1st Lincolns

5. Sapper H Beatson, 3rd Field Company

6. WRDRE James Forbes, 6th Piper No. 1087, 10th Battalion Princess Louise, Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders Regiment

7. Pvt S H Cooper, No. 2369, 7th London Regiment

8. Pvt G Evans, 2nd South Staffs B Company

9. Pvt G J Wood, 2nd Battalion Worcester Regiment

10. Pvt A Farr, No. 7214, 4th Middlesex Regiment

11. Pvt S Andrews, 1st Gordon Highlanders

12. Pvt W H Williams, 2nd Battalion Cheshire Regiment

13. Corp Stanton, Kings Own Royal Lancashire Regiment

14. Pvt Charles Dawkins, 1st Battalion Durham Light Infantry

15. Pvt E Dempsey, 1st Royal Irish Fusiliers

16. Pvt J Henley, No. 8827, 1st Royal Irish Fusiliers

17. Driver C Mitchell, No. 71114, 24th Battery KFA

18. Pvt J W Horsley, No. 1779, Northumberland Fusiliers

19. Pvt J Strain, No. 9700, No 11 Platoon, C Company, 1st Battalion Queen Own Cameron Highlanders

20. Pvt G Knight, No. 19846, A Company, 1st Sherwood Foresters

21. Corp J Isaac, 1st Lymster Regiment, Royal-Royal Canadians

22. Pvt W H Williams, 2nd Battalion, Cheshire Regiment

23. Corp E Robinson, 2nd Battalion Durham Light Infantry

24. Sgt Major W Mounteney, Sherwood Foresters

25. Pvt W Oliver, No. 7747, 1st Suffolk Regiment

26. Pvt A Wilson, No. 8614, Machine Gun Section, 2nd Cameron Highlanders

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"We have some information on CSM Mounteney - but can't track down his citation for the DCM he won. Equally we have some information on Pvt Knight."

Ancestry.com, give this info for No 24 on list. 6164 RSM W.Mounteney 1/8th Batt, Notts & Derby R, T.F. (Fermoy) (LG 11 March 1920)

DSM

"He showed conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty during the period of March, 1918, he showed untiring energy in rescuing wounded under

heavy artillery fire, when several direct hits were obtained on battalion headquarters."

W.J. Caughey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

This is a tall order without knowing exactly what you are looking for, and what sources you have already consulted. To take Pte Knight for example, who you say you already have some details for, did you know that he was killed on 26th September 1916 whilst serving with 9th Btn N&D? and was the "Son of James and Emma Knight, of 118, Loscoe Rd., Heanor, Derbyshire."

Many things are perhaps possible, but what specific kinds of detail are you after? - to do a "drains up" job on all these blokes is a big exercise and may just produce loads of stuff that has no particularly interest for your or your project.

Can you give a bit more guidance about where you have looked already and what would be of interest? For example, I could go bananas and attempt to calculate enlistment dates for them all - which would take hours to do - but would that be remotely relevant to what you want?

Sorry if I have come across as a bit negative, that is not my intention, but hopefully you can see that I am trying to help other members here to be better able to focus on producing something worthwhile for you.

Warmest regards,

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Should read, 13846 Pte George Knight, joined the battalion on the 21st March 1915 and was serving with "A" company, served with 1st Battalion then later the 9th Battalion being killed in action when in the attack near Ovillers, France, Previously wounded with the 1st Battalion on the 9th May 1915 at Rouges Bancs (VC action "Upton") having to be evacuated from the front.

4961402 (early number 6164) RSM Mounteney, D.C.M., Croix de Guerre, and Despatches served in the Boer War with No 4 company 28th Mounted Infantry (Derbyshire Regiment) and was present at the action at Boschbult on the 31st March 1902. He was wounded on the 10 May 1915 and again on the 14th October 1915, when in the attack on Point 60 near the Hohenzollern Redoubt. His early number was 6164 , and was a miner in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire. Died 7th April 1956.

BRONNO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sent someone in your group the DCM citation a couple of weeks ago!? Also Knight details with correct number etc.

People will be searching the in same areas - (ie Bronno)

This may help - info and photo sent -

I have done some checking and have the following -

13846 Private George Knight - I have attached a photo of Thiepval with his name on and also Medal roll showing the two battalions (1st and 9th). He entered theatre on 18 March 1915 (France) and the war diary confirms that on 19th March, draft of 2 officers (Lts Stackhouse and Blaxland) and 116 men arrived. These men were to make up for men lost at Neuve Chapelle. Obviously he was ill/wounded and sent to Burgage. The 9th battalion left UK on 1 July 1915 and had drafts of men after that. I would think that once he recovered, he was posted to 9th battalion - so - Gallipoli, Egypt January to June 1916, France - Arras - July 1916, Somme - August and September 1916.

He was killed in action on 26 September 1916 when the 9th battalion attacked and took all of its objectives during the Battle of Thiepval. We had over 100 men killed though during the day.

He has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial.

His family - Son of James and Emma Knight of 118 Loscoe Road, Heanor, Derbyshire.

(weird my Uncle lived there when I was a kid in the 50's).

6164 CSM William Mounteney, DCM, -

DCM citation -

Mounteney, William; Regimental Sergeant Major, 6164; 1/8th battalion; London Gazette 3.6.1919;

He showed Conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty during the period of March to September 1918. At Cambrai in March 1918 he showed untiring energy in rescuing wounded under heavy artillery fire, when several direct hits we're obtained on Battalion Headquarters.

Bit of an odd one that!

He entered theatre on 2 May 1915 (France) with 1/8th battalion, 139th Brigade, 46th Division.

War Diaries do not mention when he was wounded/ill.

He finished the war as Transport Warrant Officer 1.

I cannot find anything else on him.

Steve Morse

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a Sapper (later Lance Corporal) Harold BEATSON 480332 and (T)2067,Royal Engineers who died of wounds on 2.2.1917 and is buried with his 2nd Lieutenant (Trubshawe) in adjacent graves at Sailly-au-Bois ('twixt Arras and Amiens). Both served with 460 Field Company RE at the time of their deaths.

Harold is earlier shown as serving with 2/3 West Riding Divisional Signal Coy RE,and enlisted Sheffield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

No.18 is 6/1779 Private Joseph William Horsley who served with 6th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers. He enlisted 8th May 1913 and entered theatre 20th April 1915. He was discharged 15th October 1915 being awarded Silver War Badge 244646

SWB suggests did not serve overseas but obviously did and received 1914-1915 Star and BWM and Victory Medal. Age 21 when discharged

Regards

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

480332 Beatson is named HORACE Beatson on the Official Sheffield Roll of Honour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pvt Stanley T Hill No. 8974 2nd East Yorkshire Regiment

- Attested 7 August 1908

- 2nd Battalion D Coy Classified marksman 28 February 1913

- Awarded 2nd Class Certificate of Education 26 September 1913

- Granted 2nd Good Conduct Badge 25 February 1914

- Medal Index Card entered France 15 January 1918 2nd Battalion

- Wounded during April/May 1915 2nd Battalion Casualty List 21 September 1915

- East Yorkshire Regiment Posted wounded September 1916

- Also Served with the 7th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment

- Transferred Royal Air Force 114397

- Discharged

Edited by Whalebone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone

Many many thanks for the information so far - it all adds to the 'picture' we are trying to build up of who the patients were that were treated at the hospital and what happened to them once they had been patched up.

Mike, I think you make a good point about 'what EXACTLY are we looking for' - and no we don't want people spending hours researching - we are really trying to find the story around the list of names we have...as tragic as some of them are! Clearly CSM Mounteney is a great story and Pvt Knight's equally compelling - it would be great if we could discover more like these.

Our FACEBOOK page ('Memories of a House at War') is meant to be a 'repository' of all the information we can put together before our June event here at Burgage Manor. We then hope to put some meaningful and interesting displays together and maybe invite some relatives of either staff or patients if we get really lucky!

We are complete amateurs when it comes to investigating military or social history and, as you can see, we only have very basic information to work on. There was no record keeping at the hospital and I'm sure there were very many more men treated here that we don't know about yet - and maybe never will.

So please - if you have any information to add to help us then we would be truly grateful.

All the best, Jonathan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2. Sgt H Brown No. 9306 1st Royal Warwickshire Regiment

A difficult man to nail down as there seems to be no Medal Index Card (MIC), Service record or Pension Record on Ancestry.

His MIC does however exist at the National Archives and could be downloaded for a small fee.....

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1536664

It confirms his name to have been James H. Brown and not H. Brown. This is also confirmed by his entry on the British War and Victory Medal roll which describes him as J.H. Brown.

His service number shows an approximate enlistment date of Jan/Feb 1903, so he was a pre-war Regular, and as such may well have been serving in Malta when war was declared on 4th August 1914.

Medal roll entries exist which confirm he served with 2nd Btn and landed France 22/10/1914 . Perhaps a reinforcement as (Long Long Trail) LLT gives battalion's original arrival as "Landed at Zeebrugge 6 October 1914" as part of 22nd Brigade, 7th Division.

Extract from LLT concerning 7th Division.......

The history of 7th Division

7div.gif

The 7th Division was formed during September and very early October 1914, by the bringing together of regular army units from various points around the British Empire. They were assembled in the New Forest in Hampshire before initially moved to Belgium. The Division landed at Zeebrugge in the first week of October 1914, ordered to assist in the defence of Antwerp. However, by the time they arrived the city was already falling and the 7th was instead ordered to hold certain important bridges and other places that would help the westward evacuation of the Belgian army. Once the Belgians were through, the Division was moved westwards, where the infantry entrenched in front of Ypres, the first British troops to occupy that fateful place.

1914
The First Battle of Ypres: the Division fought the advancing German army to a standstill at Wipers. All units suffered grievous losses and it was not until the following January/February that it was once more in a complete enough condition to be considered at full fighting strength. After First Ypres, it was often known as the "Immortal Seventh".

1915
The Battle of Neuve Chapelle
The Battle of Aubers
The Battle of Festubert
The second action of Givenchy
The Battle of Loos
The Division took part in the initial assault north of the Vermelles-Hulluch road, facing the Quarries and a series of strongpoints. Suffering badly from British cloud gas - which was not moved sufficiently by the gentle breeze - and badly cut up by German machine gun fire and artillery, the Division nonethless seized the Quarries and only failed to penetrate the third German line due to the relative weakness of the numbers of men that got through. The Divisional Commander, Major-General Thompson Capper, died of wounds received during this action.

Medal roll for 1914 Star shows him as a Private, but roll for British War and Victory Medal confirms him as Serjeant. So, must have been promoted whilst on active service during the war.

Note on 1914 Star medal roll (which makes him an "Old Contemptible) states "Discharged 09/02/1916". As no entry seems to exist for him on the Silver War Badge (SWB) roll, he was more than likely discharged as "time expired".

Your credentials for him would however seem to be as 1st Btn - its the same bloke however (same surname/number). That might indicate a move at some point, or perhaps one of the 2 records we have is wrong!

Just in case.......

1st Battalion
August 1914 : in Shorncliffe. Part of 10th Brigade, 4th Division.
Landed in France on 22 August 1914.

The 4th Division in 1914-1918 The history of 4th Division

This Division, initially planned to be part of the original British Expeditionary Force, was at the last minute held back in England to counter any German landing. A decision was soon taken to despatch it to France and it arrived just in time to play a valuble part at Le Cateau. The 4th Division then remained on the Western Front throughout the war. It took part in most of the major actions, including:

1914
The Battle of Le Cateau (The Division fought in this action without its Mounted Troops, Heavy Battery, Divisional Ammunition Column, Field Companies RE, Signals Company RE, Field Ambulances RAMC and Divisional Train, which were all still en route from England)
The Battle of the Marne
The Battle of the Aisne
The Battle of Messines 1914

1915
The Second Battle of Ypres

I would tend to trust that he originally landed with 2nd Btn - because that entry which states "Landed at Zeebrugge" is quite clear. He could possibly have been wounded/sick at some stage, returned to England, recovered, and shipped back as a replacement for 1st Btn, before finding his way to Burgage Mannor in 1915 - but that is pure speculation on my part.

Unfortunately, no clues anywhere about where he came from, his family etc etc - but someone else may know different! - A Warwickshire Regt specialist may well be able to find you more.

Warmest regards,

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7. Pvt S H Cooper, No. 2369, 7th London Regiment

Actually George Herbert Cooper who served as 2369 with 1/7th London Regiment and later with 29th London Regiment with Service No 780948

Some pages of his service record exist on Ancestry under that later number.

1/7 were Territorials so he must have volunteered for overseas service - therefore held the "Imperial Service" badge.

British War and Vic medal roll states :

2369 – served theatre of war “1” (France) from 18/03/1915 to 23/05/1915

780948 – served theatre of war “3” (Russia) from 23/06/1918 to 28/05/1919

15-15 Star roll and MIC give disembarkation in France as 17/03/1915.

From LLT........

1/7th (City of London) Battalion
August 1914 : at Finsbury Square. Record same as 1/6th Bn.

Part of 2nd London Brigade, 1st London Division. Moved on mobilisation to Bisley, going on in September to Crowborough.
5 November 1914 : moved to Watford and transferred to 4th London Brigade in 2nd London Division.
18 March 1915 : landed at Le Havre.
11 May 1915 : formation renamed 140th Brigade in 47th (2nd London) Division.
2 February 1918 : transferred to 174th Brigade in 58th (2/1st London) Division, absorbed the disbanded 2/7th Bn and renamed 7th Bn.

29th and 30th (City of London) Battalions
On 1 January 1917, the 100th and 101st Provisional Bns at Guildford became the 29th and 30th Londons. They had been formed in June 1915 from home service personnel. Both came under orders of 212th Brigade in 71st Division. Moved in March 1917 to Colchester then on 5 February 1918 to Walton-on-the-Naze. Transferred on 5 February 1918 to 226 Mixed Brigade.

Regards,

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike

Very good work above.

Medal card on Ancestry (maybe another Typo) for a James H. Brown, under S/N 7096, has a Birmingham address, but very bad image of card so not sure if its same chap.

Looks like to me, 26 Talfound St, Small Heath, Birmingham.

Walter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Walter,

Thanks for making me look again!! - MIC for Brown does exist on Ancestry - filed as 7306. Under high magnification the 7 turns out to be a 9.

It gives his qualifying date as 22nd October 1914 - which corroborates the medal roll entry.

Furthermore, that address appears on the back:

26, Talfourd (?) Street,

Small Heath,

Birmingham.

Further investigation with Google Maps confirms that there is indeed a Talfourd Street in Birmingham - better yet, its in Small Heath - BINGO!

Sincere thanks Walter, could not have done that without you!

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...