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Remembered Today:

Winston Churchill on the Western Front


WilliamRev

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Ref. the Fascists in Scotland link, the photo (not captioned) is of Captain Archibald Henry Maule Ramsay - apparently the only MP to be interned in WW2..

Mike

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The London Gazette 02/06/1916 number 29607 page 5471 under Infantry (Service Battalions) records:

R Sc Fus.

Maj The Rt Hon W L S Churchill, Oxf. Yeo. (T.F.) relinquishes the temp rank of Lt Col on ceasing to comd a Bn. 16 MAY 1916.

The Gazette date was reported in the Bolton papers on 06/06/1916.

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  • 9 months later...

The Bolton Evening News of 100 years ago last week printed Winston Churchill's letter of Resignation dated 11/11/1915. Having accepted an Office with few responsibilities in order to take part in the War Council he could not continue without having any guidance or control over policy. The paper also printed Asquith's reply dated 12/11/1915 and summarised Churchill's career. He held the rank of Major in the Queens Own Oxfordshire Hussars (Yeomanry). It later reported on his Personal Statement in the House and hoped that his genius would not be wasted for long on Regimental Duties. Finally on 18/11/1915 the paper reported that he had left to join his Regiment in France, passing un noticed among the crowds at Charing Cross dressed in uniform and sword, he departed in a reserved carriage. The paper followed his time on the Western Front. More next week

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The Bolton Evening News of 24/11/1915 reported that Winston Churchill was attached to the Grenadier Guards and was having his first spell in the trenches.

Brian

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The 2nd Bn Grenadier Guards War Diary records on 20th Nov 1915

"....Major Rt Hon Winston Churchill who has just resigned from Government arrived to be attached to the Battalion for instruction and accompanied the battalion to the trenches..."

His departure was not recorded by the Grenadier Guards. MG

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The Bolton Evening News 01/12/1915 reported that while his son Randolph Churchill was making his first public appearance at the wedding of Miss Asquith and Mr Bonham-Carter, Winston Churchill was celebrating his 41st birthday in the Trenches.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Bolton Evening News of 16/12/1915 in "Points in Parliament" reported that Mr Tennant said he had no knowledge of any promise to Major Churchill of the command of any Infantry Brigade.

On 17/12/1915 in "Mr Churchill's Narrow Escape" the paper quoted Private Perry of the Grenadier Guards, one of the wounded landed at Dublin yesterday afternoon. The arrival of Mr Winston Churchill had excited great interest in the Regiment. Mr Churchill had already had a narrow escape from being killed in his dug out which was wrecked by a German shell. Mr Churchill's orderly was killed.

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Just to fill in a small gap in what the Bolton newspapers reported - QOOH records say that he arrived at Regimental Headquarters on November 18th 1915 before he then went on to GHQ and "...was then attached to a Guards Battalion to gain experience of trench warfare".

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The Bolton Evening News 23/12/1915 reported that Major Winston Churchill visited the PM at 10 Downing St today. The Right Honourable Gentleman was in civilian clothes and looked very well. He remained only a short time and then drove away with Mr Asquith.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Bolton Evening News 27/12/1915 reported that Major Winston Churchill returned to France this morning on the expiration of his leave of absence.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In the Bolton Evening News of 08/01/1916 the Press Association Special Correspondent with the British HQ in France reported, unofficially, but from a reliable source, that Major Winston Churchill was to command a Battalion of Royal Scots. "This would probably prove but a brief stepping stone to the command of a Brigade".

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On the day that we are marking the 50th anniversary of the funeral of Winston Churchill, it is interesting to remember that he served on the Western Front: from 25th December 1915 until 7th May 1916. 6th Battalion the Royal Scots Fusiliers was commanded by Lieut.-Colonel the Right Hon. W. S. Churchill.

There is a photo of him with his officers HERE, and Captain Andrew Gibb's 36-page memoir of this time "With Winston Churchill at the Front, by Captain X" is available online [google "Winston Churchill at the Front" to find an online copy that you can download]. It is both witty and fascinating,

William.

Speak for yourself. many on Gallipoli would not even give him the time of day. So much blood on his hands, yet he is supposed to be some kind of hero.

As my old Dad used to day 'I wouldn't p*** on him if he was on fire'

SM

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Going off-topic a little: I came across an article in the 'Birmingham Daily Mail' of January 17th 1914 the other day. The article concerns the HMS A7 disaster. (The A7 submarine sunk off Plymouth on 16th January 1914 with the loss of all hands - eleven men.)

" ... the fact that Mr. Winston Churchill selected the A 13 in which to descend last year seems to show that the Admiralty still have faith in their [the A class of submarine] use for coast work ... "

It is I think to Churchill's credit that he was prepared to go onto the A13. The article tells us that, "The A class has always been unfortunate. The accidents in them commenced in 1903, when seven men were injured in an explosion on the A 1, and forty men have been lost to the Navy in submarines of this class."

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  • 1 month later...

The Bolton Evening News 04/03/1916 in "Colonel Churchill's Daring" quoted a brother Officer that Lt Col Winston Churchill is behaving with characteristic courage at the Front, especially in going out at night between the lines with wiring parties, expeditions which Officers of his rank rarely make. He is most popular with his comrades of all ranks, showing great keenness and quite remarkable initiative. Directly the English mail comes in he immerses himself in the newspapers forwarded to him before he reads his correspondence.

On 07/03/1916 the paper reported that Balfour had introduced the Navy Estimates to Parliament and the following day reported Col Churchill's response. The article did not report the content of his speech feeling that it was not in the national interest to do so, but expressed that he should have submitted his views privately to the PM and Balfour. In Balfour's reported response the name of Lord Fisher was prominent.

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A comment in particular for the appreciation of Steve Morse, who does not seem to be a devotee of the worship of Sir Winston.

I have always had a bit of familial pride in the small roles my father and grand-father had in casting confusion on the career of Churchill in WW I. My grand-father was a Reserves Explosives Officer Captain, and was attached to the Generalkommando of the Third Reserve Corps, where he served managing the provision of the very special ammunition for the Austro-Hungarian 30.5 cm Moto=Morsern (Motorized "Mortars") and the German 42 cm (16.5 inch) howitzers, exceptional siege guns. The latter fired an armor piercing shell of as much as 2550 lbs about five miles in the air over a fort, piercing as much as 40 feet thru concrete, steel, earth and corridors of the fort before exploding. With the shell's armored construction, two chambers of explosives, and two fuses, it was ideally suited for causing massive damage, even killing many of the garrison with an enormous volume of poisonous explosive gasses, blackening and shrinking the victims. Others died without a mark on them from the concussion.

At Antwerp an American correspondent described how Churchill swept into the lobby of a major hotel, loudly proclaiming that Antwerp was saved, Churchill was here with the Naval Division. But the described siege guns usually reduced a fort in three days or less, forts that were designed to hold out 90 days, even if completely surrounded. Sometimes the magazines were pierced and exploded (one of my grand-father's letters described seeing this, seeing a large gun turret twist and turn as it was launched skyward, sometimes, after waiting every eight minutes for another pair of these shells to strike, the garrison would mutiny or flee out the rear, maddened I have letters my grand-father wrote at night to my father after returning from watching these great guns in action.

In a few days Churchill and his division had to flee, one brigade fleeing into Holland and internship, despite the 43 forts surrounding Antwerp, the third greatest fortress complex in the world. I am sure that the brief stay and flight was a learning experience. Later, planning for Gallipoli, Churchill sent the Dreadnought Queen Elisabeth, with its great, flat-firing guns, probably expecting dramatic success against the Turkish forts and batteries defending the Narrows. But the flat-firing battle-ship guns were not that effective, the Turkish officers and German advisers called their results "earth fountains", and the Narrows could not be forced, despite the loss of I think six battleships. I believe that Churchill was not "a detail man", and really had not figured out the difference between these two very different great guns, and their effectiveness against fortifications.

The much more minor role my father had was in the German volunteer engineering company at Gallipoli. His studies toward becoming a Fortifications Officer halted by the war, he volunteered for service in the Turkish Fifth Army. He had construction experience and education, and was an expert with explosives, a skill that the Turkish engineers were very short of, partially due a severe shortage of explosives to practice with. My father served in the mining warfare at the ANZAC bridgehead, and there observed the Austrian 24.5 cm Moto=Morsern fire effectively on the ANZACs. (Later, in 1922, my father was running guns to the Turks from Berlin when the Greeks were invading and no one would give the Turks the time of day, never mind arms. About 10 years ago I sold a small building to a young Turk in the US, and at the end of the deal he threw another $30,000 into the deal, astonishing his real estate agent, in thanks for my father's service to Turkey. He knew me slightly, and knew of my father's service 90 years before.)

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Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I now have all three wartime issues of the Royal Scots Fusiliers Magazine, and in the issue from winter 1917/18 (entitled "New Year 1918") I find a version of the photo of Churchill with 6th RSF that I posted when I began this thread. The photo has been cut down somewhat, but it does have names of most of the officers - alas not quite enough names for all the chaps photographed.

William

post-49411-0-57247000-1457824679_thumb.j

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A question for those who are better read about WSC than I am, did he ever show any postwar affection for any particular regiment that he was involved with?

khaki

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Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I now have all three wartime issues of the Royal Scots Fusiliers Magazine, and in the issue from winter 1917/18 (entitled "New Year 1918") I find a version of the photo of Churchill with 6th RSF that I posted when I began this thread. The photo has been cut down somewhat, but it does have names of most of the officers - alas not quite enough names for all the chaps photographed.

William

attachicon.gifChurchill 6th RSF1238.jpg

I see the chap sat second right is named '2nd Lt. Jones'. The photo in post #1 names him 'Matthew H-J'. I suggested in post #25 that his name was 'M Hackforth-Jones'. Perhaps between the three posts we have his full name!

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A question for those who are better read about WSC than I am, did he ever show any postwar affection for any particular regiment that he was involved with?khaki

His affections appear to have been for his Yeomanry regiment the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars. He and his great friend F. E. Smith were enthusiastic officers of this regiment before the GW. WSC became their Honorary Colonel, and wore their uniform on occasion during the Second war (notably at the Potsdam Conference). The regiment played a prominent role at his funeral in 1965.

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A question for those who are better read about WSC than I am, did he ever show any postwar affection for any particular regiment that he was involved with?

khaki

The Royal Scots Fusiliers were very proud that Churchill remarked: “Although an Englishman, it was in Scotland I found the three best things in my life: my wife, my constituency and my regiment.”

A version of this quote appears on the Royal Highland Fusiliers Museum website, and indeed in all sorts of Scottish-related sites on the internet, but I haven't yet traced its source.

William

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His affections appear to have been for his Yeomanry regiment the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars. He and his great friend F. E. Smith were enthusiastic officers of this regiment before the GW. WSC became their Honorary Colonel, and wore their uniform on occasion during the Second war (notably at the Potsdam Conference). The regiment played a prominent role at his funeral in 1965.

"Effie" was rather famously arrested during one of his visits to the front !

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Thanks Uncle George, William and Mr Drill,

A fascinating personality, I wrote to him and I still have two letters one signed by his personal secretary and the other signed by him on House of Commons stationery.

khaki

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The Bolton Evening News London Correspondent reported on 11/03/1916 that it was understood that Col Churchill had obtained extended leave from the Front and was expected to take part in Commons debates the next week. His friends said that the prevailing opinion is that it would be a mistake for him to seek to renew his Parliamentary career. On 13/03/1916 the LC welcomed his decision to return to the Front and blamed the members of the Liberal War Committee for mistaken counsel in urging him to get extended leave to press the Government for more rigorous policy.

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  • 1 month later...

The Bolton Evening News 27/04/1916 in Col Churchill's Future reported that his inclination was to return to a parliamentary career. "He should announce a definite decision. It would probably be better for him having chosen active service so recently to stick to it".

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