2nd Monmouthshire Battalion – Help with Service Record

[Simon A]

Please can someone help me with the attached Service record of Ernest Havard.

Can you clarify the Casualty Form and Army Form “A” Please.

Why is there such a long period between unpaid Lance Corporal and paid? (between 12/07/1916 and 20/12/1916)

What is 1/2^nd Battalion. Is it 1 and 2 Battalions? Is this the same as 2^nd Battalion?

Can his Company or Platoon be identified from the Service Record?

Please excuse my ignorance.

Didn't manage to download the other page - too big.

Regards

Simon

[BillyH]

What is 1/2^nd Battalion. Is it 1 and 2 Battalions? Is this the same as 2^nd Battalion?

There was 1/2nd, 2/2nd + 3/2nd Battalions - see link to Long Long Trail (top left of this page), or here :

http://www.1914-1918.net/monmouth.htm

BillyH.

[Simon A]

What I wasn't clear about is why does each Battalion have show a / between the numbers. Is 1/2 half a Battalion or is it 1 & 2 Battalions or something else. Is 2/2 Battalion the same as 2nd?

Thanks

Simon

[johnboy]

If you follow the link given by BillyH you will see they were all territorial battalions.

[kenf48]

What I wasn't clear about is why does each Battalion have show a / between the numbers. Is 1/2 half a Battalion or is it 1 & 2 Battalions or something else. Is 2/2 Battalion the same as 2nd?

Thanks

Simon

For clarification, prior to the declaration of war there were three Battalions of the Monmouthshire Regiment, and a Cadet Battalion. They were grouped geographically so the 1st Bn HQ was at Newport, the 2nd at Pontypool and the 3rd at Abergavenny.

When war was declared those already serving were asked to sign the 'Imperial Obligation" to serve overseas (again see LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/tf.htm). While most did sign a fair proportion of men did not. It was also recognised that if a Battalion was to go on active service then a reserve would be required. Thus the County Territorial Associations formed a reserve or second line battalion initially made up of 'home service' men, new recruits and those unfit for overseas service. This was designated 2/ (there was no1/ or 2/ before the war simply the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Bns). So with the same rough geographical designation you have the original 2nd Bn (Pontypool and district) which is now designated 1/2 with the Reserve Bn designated 2/2 (and later a third line or 3/2 Bn).

The disposition of the Monmouthshire Battalions is described on the link given above at post 2.

As for your other questions Lance Corporal was an appointment and many remained unpaid. From the record page above at the same time he was appointed 'paid' he was granted leave, only speculation but these 'perks' may have been a 'reward' for good work and proving he was an able junior NCO.

The Company or platoon cannot be identified from the record, though there may be a mention in the war diary of his appointment, bit hit and miss but worth a look. Prior to the war the Companies of the 2nd Battalion were based in various local Drill Halls/Centres but by the time he went on active service it's difficult to be precise.

On enlistment at Pontypool (where 'A', 'B' and 'C' Companies were based prior to the war) Ernest Havard signed the Imperial Obligation on the 14th November and was 'embodied' into the TF. He was posted to the 2/2nd Bn for training and embarked Southampton on the 17th February 1915 and was posted to the 1/2nd on the 2nd March 1915. His brother (2586) was killed on the 8th May 1915 at Second Ypres.

The war diary is in two sections and six parts to cover the separate deployments and can be downloaded from TNA

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352173 covers initial posting to 31 January 1916

The next section is in five parts so the link is to the page and you can choose how far you want to go

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=Monmouthshire+Regiment&_ep=&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=Medal&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=&_cr2=&_cr3=&_dss=range&_sd=&_ed=&_p=1900&_hb=&_ro=any&_rd=&_rsd=&_red=&_st=adv&_rv=&name=Search

Ken

[Simon A]

Thank you very much Ken. That make it much clearer.

Regards

Simon

[Martyn Gibson]

Simon,

I have the following bits of information on the brothers, it may be of some interest to you.

I also have a picture of Thomas, if you would like a copy then please PM me and I will send it on to you.

Kind regards

Martyn

HAVARD, ERNEST

- Lance Corporal 265827 - 2nd Battalion Monmouthshire Regiment - died 2nd December 1917 - enlisted at Pontypool; son of Sarah Ann Havard of Gwrhay Fawr Cottage, Argoed; brother Thomas Benjamin who also gave his life for his country - commemorated on the Cambrai Memorial, Louverval, Nord, France - reference Panel 11 also commemorated in the Battalion War Memorial Chapel, St. Cadoc’s Church, Trevethin also commemorated on the Oakdale Stone Memorial, Aberconway Place, Oakdale

HAVARD, THOMAS BENJAMIN

- Private 2586 - 2nd Battalion Monmouthshire Regiment - died 8th May 1915 - age 22 - born in Pontypool; enlisted at Pontypool; son of Sarah Ann Havard of Gwrhay Fawr Cottage, Argoed; brother of Ernest who also gave his life for his country - commemorated on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium - reference Panel 50 also commemorated in the Battalion War Memorial Chapel, St. Cadoc’s Church, Trevethin also commemorated on the Oakdale Stone Memorial, Aberconway Place, Oakdale - obituary in the Free Press of Monmouthshire, County Archives, Gwent County Record Office, Turnpike Road, Croesycoeliog, Cwmbran copy dated 28th May 1915 including photograph