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Remembered Today:

65 Squadron RFC. War Diaries


JOSTURM

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Can anyone tell me where I can see the dairies for 65 Squadron. Does anyone have them and willing to share ?

I am researching David Harden Scott.

Rgds

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Hello Peter,

I have a complete set of the Squadron record books and combat reports. I also have pictures of Scott MC and (I Think) press cuttings. I will also have his AIR76 and you could also have whatever I have written about him. I am sure I have a picture of his grave.

PM me if you want copies (I am may need your postal address as from memory each page is 3mb - in which case I can arrange a CD for you) - although Scott was one of the earlier KIA's. I will not be able to reply until tomorrow afternoon at the earliest.

There are notes on this officer in this book: Diary Letters World Fighter Pilot by Christopher Burgess.

Can I ask what your interest is in Scott?

Best wishes,

Simon

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Fantastic - I have his 15 Star.

Pete

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  • 6 months later...

Hello,

I am glad that I discovered this thread. I have a combat report filed by2nd. Lt. S.W. Crane dated 15.5.18 in which he report shooting down an Albatross.

I would very much like to find out more about him and 65 Squadron. I am also interested in researching a Canadian pilot who was in 65 Squadron by the name of Lt. Ernest Fredrick W. Peacock. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Please send me an e-mail when replying to this post (lbohn@shaw.ca) I don't want to miss a post and I'm not sure how to be notified by the forum. :rolleyes:

Best regards,

Lorne

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Hi Lorne,

I will have a look for you on this; but it will be tomorrow. Will send over anything I have on you E-mail.

Best Wishes,

Simon

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  • 3 months later...

Sorry to be a pain.... :hypocrite:

I am trying to find details on 2/Lt 85712 Ralph Wood of the 65th who died in an 'aeroplane accident' on 18/10/1918 and is buried in Dunkirk CWGC. If anyone can help I would be very grateful.

Thanks

Richard

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  • 4 years later...

Hello Peter, I find your forum so interesting , I’m Gordon Philip Howe, son of Major Gordon Percival Howe, I’m from Toronto ,Canada, my father went overseas with the first contingent , the Canadian expeditionary Force in 1914, served in France with the 9th Reserve Battalion, he was wounded and in 1917 Joined the RFC and was attached to 65th Squadron Jan.10/1917. I have his logbook and other papers and pictures. I his logbook it indicates he shot down 5 ea, enemy aircraft. I would appreciate any info you may have on the Squadron or my father . Thank you .Gordon Howe

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Hello Gordon.

 

I have had a look at this and frankly am confused. I have found the AIR76 file for Gordon Percival Howe, from Edmonton Alberta, but this officer only completed this training just after the war ended, but who's rank and joining the R.A.F. is given as Major.

Based on this I am certain that this officer did not serve with 65 Squadron during their war service, I am more than happy to send you this officers file if you let me have an email address. However I did find, from 'The Roll of Service 1914-1919 / The War Book of Upper Canada College' a record that your father was sent to 65 Squadron in December 1918. If so it was for a shot period because he relinquished his commission on 24 Feb. 1919.

In 'Above the Trenches' by Shores, Franks and Guest, there is a Percy Frank Charles Howe, who did have 5 victories to his name, but came from Swaziland, and served with 74 Squadron not 65. 'Above the Trenches' is the complete record of Aces who served in the British Empire Squadrons so I would certainly have expected to find your father in there - but again no dice. However your fathers Canadian service file does note that he trained and later joined the RFC, and served with them in France, albeit for a short while during the spring of 1918.

 

So that is a long winded way of saying:

A. Your father did service with the RFC / RAF and served in France during the spring of 1918.

B. But he had no war service with 65 Squadron, and certainly did not score any victories with them.

C. I am certain he did not serve with 65 Squadron before they left for France in Nov. 1917.

 

It may be someone else can help you with another Squadron - and I am sorry this is a confused picture. If you want a copy of your fathers Canadian service file, or his much shorter RAF file let me have an e-mail address and I will forward them to you.

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 11 months later...

Interesting, Syddall's casualty form (a movement record) at https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/23751 shows that he had been with 65 only a matter of days.  Having been initially sent to 46 on 19th November 1917, he was posted away to 2 ASD on the 20th and seems to have languished there until 15th December when he was posted to 65.  He was detached on temporary duty to an aerial range between 27th December and 4th January 1918 - and promptly died on his return.

 

Hopefully @Simon Birch will be able to throw some more light...

Edited by pierssc
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Hello Graham - Welcome to the forum.

 

As you are aware George was a Canadian. His army record can be downloaded in pdf. form from here: https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=261510 - if you do not have a copy this will give you 48 pages worth in information.

 

He did indeed arrive at 65 Sqd. on 15 Dec. 1917 and allocated to A Flight.

I have been through the pages of the Sqd. record book (this details each flight, where they where going and doing etc.) From this I know that he did not actually get off the ground until 15.20 on 17 Dec. 1917 - when he was practice flying for 40 minutes. 22 Dec. was his next outing, again practice flying for 30 minutes. On Christmas day his flight left at 10.40 on an offensive patrol, but had to return (with everyone else) after 20 minutes because of a snow storm. His last mention is on 04 Jan 1918, when he took off at 11.35 to practice formation flying with his flight leader Capt. T. Withington. During a dive his starboard wing collapsed and he crashed at 11.50. He is now buried at Bailleul Communal Cemetery Extension. Given that most of the Sqd. pilots were flying two sorties a day, George's time in the cockpit is very low, even allowing for he movement orders that pierrssc found. There is no mention at all in the Squadrons' 'Combats in the Air' book

 

Photographs of him and his grave can be found here: https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/201793 although a higher resolution picture of his grave can be ordered from the Great War Photographic Project (they as for a donation of £4.00)

 

Some years ago I made a note that Over the Front (its a magazine) noted that '"He was a 31 year old Toronto born son of an English immigrant house builder who others strongly agreed "had no business becoming a fighter pilot"" Unfortunately I neglected to record which issue I found that in. There is however, some history in the Canadian Bank of Commerce p. 519 / 520. http://lib.militaryarchive.co.uk/library/Biographical/library/The-Canadian-Bank-of-Commerce-Letters-from-the-Front-Volume-II/files/assets/basic-html/page519.html

 

He is also recorded in Volume V of De Ruvigny's (Through Ancestry) pp. 160 - 161 - see pictures. Apart from that all I can tell is that on the British 1911 census he was living as a boarder in Putney, and his occupation then was a bank clerk.

 

Hope that helps a little - Sorry I cannot tell you more.

 

Simon

 

 

Screenshot 2020-11-04 102155.jpg

Screenshot 2020-11-04 102226.jpg

Edited by Simon Birch
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Thank you very much @Simon Birch and @pierssc, this is really extremely helpful. You’ve cleared up the timeline of events. 

Just a few last questions, if you’ll indulge me:

  1. the de Ruvigny entry has a quote from a Lieut. Wright - any idea who that might be?
  2. Would the collapse of a wing be just a freak occurrence or might it be a result of bad flying?
  3. The comment about ‘no business becoming a fighter pilot’ is really intriguing, do you have some idea of what’s going on there - like did they think he came from the wrong social class, the wrong kind of education, or he didn’t have the right kind of experience? Who would be a good candidate for pilot’s training and why might they think that Syddall didn’t fit the bill?
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Hi Graham

 

In haste:

 

1.  Simon Birch may be able to enlighten us further, but you could probably work it out from a search of www.airhistory.org.uk and www.casualtyforms.org.

 

2.  Could be either or both. - a defect of some kind in the aircraft, and/or an inexperienced (or "ham-fisted") pilot being rough with it, the latter being maybe more probable.

 

3. Scout pilots were not all Old Etonians.  I thought the comment was interesting, but I think it suggests that he did not have the highly tuned reactions/ temperament / sensitivity / flying skills to be a successful fighter pilot and would have been more suited to flying a reconnaissance aircraft. Usually people were separated into different streams during training so it sort of indicates a failure in the system that he was sent to fly something as sensitive as the Camel, which was notoriously difficult to fly because of the high torque and light response.  He had been a bank clerk in civilian life, and an adjutant in the army, both desk jobs, very responsible but not the sort of background and requiring the temperament you would necessarily associate with a fighter pilot.

 

Without knowing anything about him (and I may be inferring too much from fairly limited resources) I thought the Casualty form hinted at some sort of problem.  He was sent to 46 squadron - Camels - and apparently sent back the next day.  He then spent an unusually long time (3.5 weeks!) in the pilots pool (while they tried to work out what to do with him?) before being sent to 65, and after a few days 65 sent him off to be a range officer, a ground job where he was no danger to anyone.  When he came back he went straight up and promptly got killed on a training flight and everyone said (in public) what a jolly good chap he had been, and (in private) thought he had been a disaster waiting to happen.
 

He was something of an anomaly in that he seems to have arrived as a Captain - which meant that he ranked high enough to command a flight, but was the rawest of raw pilots in terms of experience.  I don't know how he achieved that.  Perhaps he was particularly dogged and determined and realised his dream against the odds.  At 31 he was also relatively old - probably a good 12 years older than many of his comrades in the squadron - again, not necessarily usual for a Camel pilot.  Whatever it was he didn't really fit in to the conventional RFC squadron structure.  Which is not to decry his bravery or personal qualities in any way, but he may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time doing something far beyond his abilities and one gets the feeling that his end may have been inevitable and obvious to everyone but himself. 

Edited by pierssc
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On 21/11/2019 at 01:11, pierssc said:

 

Totally agree with everything Pierssc has written. There were good pilots and less good pilots. I have no idea who Lt. Wright was. I have been through the record book, combat reports and through airhistory, filtering for 65 Sqd, and have never found a Lt. Wright. If you want to give it a go its here: http://www.airhistory.org.uk/rfc/people_index.html - but beware - he may not even be in the RFC, but could be an officer Syddall knew in the army. You may be able to trace him, but it would gain you little I think.

He was a Captain as he had been commissioned into the Manitoba Regiment in early 1916, and promoted to Captain on 14th Oct. 1916 - so his rank relates to his previous service.

Simon

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry, a bit late to join the conversation...

My partner's grandfather Derek Goudie Brown was with 65 Squadron (for a short period) until wounded on 30th March 1918 - does anyone have electronic copies of the squadron diaries and records that would cover late 1917 to Easter 1918?

He gets a couple of very brief mentions in the Burgess book which has delighted her but she's keen to know more, she does have access to his logbook and some photographs of the period which are fascinating.

On a slight side note - I was intrigued to see the post about 2Lt Ralph Wood - as it's my name! Anyone know anymore about him?

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

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