RWF John Cadwaladr Jones 8580 - Transfer from 2 RWF to 1 RWF 1914

[Twickey]

Hello

I am researching my family tree and have come across a John Cadwaladr Jones, service number 8580 who served with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. I have used the medal card index and rolls, CWGC database and other sources to piece together his service history and am hoping someone on the forum can help me to fill in the gaps.

I'm guessing based on the information at armyservicenumbers.BlogSpot.com that J C Jones would have joined towards the end of 1904 and according to the 2011 census he was in India with the 2nd Bn RWF. The timings suggest he would have been a reservist when war broke out. His medal index shows that he arrived in theatre on 12 September 1914 and I assumed that he served with 2nd Bn RWF since the 1st Bn did not arrive until 7 October. The medal roll, however, shows that he transferred from 2nd Bn RWF to 1st Bn RWF and he is listed at the back of "Road to Armageddon as having served in 1st Bn RWF under Lt Col Cadogan. I would quite like to work out how long he was with 2nd Bn RWF and the date he joined the 1st Bn. Is there anyway of working this out? I can see references in the 1st Bn RWF war diary of drafts arriving but it doesn't have details of the men arriving (except officers) and the medal rolls do not contain any dates. Unfortunately it also appears that his service record hasn't survived.

To round off his story, it appears that he survived the Battle of Gheluvelt where the 1st Battalion RWFwas pretty much wiped out, only to be killed a week later on 7 November 1914, where the survivors of 1st Bn RWF (86, with no officers according to the official history) were attached to the 2/Queens as part of Lawford's counter-attack that took part that day.

If anyone has any further information about how reserves/reinforcements were managed within the regiment in the early stages of the war or suggestions of sources I might consult, I would be most grateful.

Cheers!

[Hywyn]

Welcome/Croeso to the Forum

The RWF archives had/have the 1st battalion casualty books. The whole archive was recently transferred into the care of Wrexham Archives. You might find what you seek in them.

I say 'might' as much work has been done on these, not least by John Tyler and John Krijnen, and their unpublished material does not indicate a transfer date between the battalion. Their material states, wounded/missing 7 11 14

Hywyn

edited

[Muerrisch]

Many of the 1914 stars awarded to the 103 men who disembarked 12 September 1914 are in fact to 1st RWF men.

 

This is almost certainly because 2nd RWF had been brought up to full strength on 9th September.

 

Drafts from the Depot were usually held at the relevant Infantry Base Depot either until needed, or until the need was predicted [such as before a major action].

 

I believe your man [with the others] arrived at 1st RWF 26th October, having not served with 2nd RWF since passing to the reserve.

[Twickey]

Hi Muerrisch

 

I owe you a belated thank you for commenting on this thread I started last year.  I was wondering if you had any further information about the 103 who disembarked on 12 September 1914 such as the vessel they crossed the channel on?  Is it also possible to identify the Infantry Base Depot they would have been held at?

 

Cheers!

[Muerrisch]

Beyond ssuggesting that the early disembarkations seem to have used Rouen, I cannot suggest much more. I will check.

 

Perhaps you might start a separate thread under the ships and shipping [or whatever its called] section. There are expert experts out there. You need troopships for the day before disembarkation and the day itself. The draft would not be only the RWF men of course.

[asanewt]

 He is a Ruthin, Denbighshire, North Wales man and appears on the local war memorial

8580 Private John Cadwaladr Jones
1st Bn. Royal Welsh Fusiliers.  7 Nov 1914. Age 29
Born Llanrhydd. Son of Elizabeth Talbot Jones, 65, Mwrog Street, Ruthin.
Menin Gate Memorial, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium.

There are other local Jones casualties with Serial No within 100 of his listed in 1st Bn. and 2nd Bn.

Can have dig around local archive if needed but don't hold your breath