Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Whilst on the subject of photos recntly acquired, I have another which shows a truck near the front, the tapaulin of which has a shamrock on a white square. I think this is a truck of the 16th Irish Division, or am I being too simplistic? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 I know that the 16th Irish Div. had markings like the one you discribed on their trucks you can see them on 2 pictures which are in alot of books 1 is of them returing from Guillemont and the other is an ambulance I think in Wytschate. I can't really see the marking being for anything else though. Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Conor, I will scan and post on the forum later this week if you are interested? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 I thought the divisional flash was a large capital P with a line underneath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Ian i have two player cig cards and on the back of 16th irishit says that the shamrock emblem was worn by the men but on vehicles the second one was used,how accurate this info is i dont know or how rigidly it was adhered to is anybodies guess, anyway i've scanned them for you to see Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Arm - Ta for that. I will scan it next week and let the 'Jury' decide! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Conor, I will scan and post on the forum later this week if you are interested? Ian Cheers Ian it would be interesting to see it I will root out those to photos in a book somewhere and try ! to scan them (I amn't the most patient when it comes to uploading !) Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Just for interest it says that the vehicle marking was used by the Second Commanding officer Maj-Gen Sir William Hickie in remeberence of the creator of the division Lt-Gen Sir Lawerence Parsons. KCB. Obviously its a L and P together. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Conor, Shall be done. I can see this being popular - my Guvnor was related to a Pte Henry Pearce who was KiA on 21 March 1918 serving with the 2nd Royal Dublin Fusiliers! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Posts on this are moving at 100mph but The LP was shown on trucks HQ signs etc. but if you have Ray Westlake's Kitcheners Army look at pages 40/41 I will try to scan them though. Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 wouldnt mind seeing that Conor .be patient and try... On the subject i suppose when you had two signs it was possible that the two overlapped and also i suppose as the second vehicle marking was introduced later it may not have replace existing markings. Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Conor, Yes - I have got the book. The shamrock in the picture I've got is more the size the one on the truck door (p41), rather than the one on the ambulance (p40), which I can only make out next to the red cross! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 Just for people who don't have the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 4 May , 2003 Share Posted 4 May , 2003 I didn't expect that to work sorry it so small and of so poor but you get the idea !!! Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 5 May , 2003 Share Posted 5 May , 2003 Just to add to the discussion. I have a sacking Brodie helmet cover (dated 1918) with a green felt shamrock sewn to the front. Also a picture of a RE dispatch rider with a shamrock on the tank of his Triumph motor cycle. Cheers. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 8 May , 2003 Share Posted 8 May , 2003 Here is the picture in question: Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 8 May , 2003 Share Posted 8 May , 2003 Is the emblem on the tank the same? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 8 May , 2003 Share Posted 8 May , 2003 Ian - remember this emblem was also used by the SRD - Special (?Service) Rations Department - I have seen it painted on supply vehicles and boxes of rations etc supplied to men in the field. Just to confuse things further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 8 May , 2003 Share Posted 8 May , 2003 My understanding of the scheme of insignia used by 16th (Irish) Division is that the "LP" device was used on transport, while the shamrock on the drab disc was worn on the upper arms by personnel of the division. In addition, infantry wore further devices in green on the back of their tunics below the collar, such as the maple leaf worn by 7th Leinsters. It is quite possible, however, that units preferred to display the shamrock on unit transport, just to be difficult! As it happens, the shamrock (painted in black) is still used as a unit identification on the vehicles of 1st Bn Irish Guards (who have also readopted the old Guards Division "eye" badge for their deployment in Iraq) and 1st Bn The Royal Irish Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 8 May , 2003 Share Posted 8 May , 2003 Thanks for that Paul As ever nothing is clear cut! Does anyone have other examples of Divisional sign on transport? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 8 May , 2003 Share Posted 8 May , 2003 Virtually all formations that had devices displayed them on transport, but here is the scheme used by 46th (North Midland) Division as an example: Around June 1916, devices began to be painted onto unit transport of 46th Division. The insignia displayed on transport was the divisional sign (left); a blue square indicating, “first line transport” (centre); and the battalion insignia (right). Both the divisional sign and battalion device were outlined in white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 8 May , 2003 Share Posted 8 May , 2003 That's a bit prescriptive! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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