3770 PTE. GEORGE WALKER. EAST YORKSHIRE REGIMENT

[Pte. George Walker]

Hi Everyone,

Like I said in the title, I am sure this can wear thin at times, but I am at a loss as to where to look and who to pay and who not to pay for information regarding my families history and sacrifice. So if I may and you can bear with me and read my epilogue below I would appreciate it.

I have recently purchased one of the poppies from the tower of London exhibition to give to my son as his Christmas box. I did this for the memory of his Grandfathers George Walker and Harold Hickson and also his Great Great Grandfather William Hickson who was killed in the Hull Blitz whilst on Fire Watch duty. George Walker who at around 20 years old when volunteered in 1914 to fight with the East Yorkshire Regiment. He survived the four years of war and was demobbed from the Tank Corps in 1919 after spending the last years of the war manning a tank at the front I am told. He passed away peacefully in 1970 leaving two children and six grandchildren.

Harold Hickson was my mother’s father and he died in 1943 whilst serving in the Royal Army Medical Corps

My son Jack has just turned fifteen and is seriously considering a career in teaching history in his future. He has the backing of his school Beverley Grammar School and its teachers who are also pushing him to go down this career path as he has a great interest in history and a natural ability to learn the subject. Beverley Grammar lost 97 old boys in the Great War and has been studying the Great War in detail. His study subject at the moment in history is the social change in Britain from the Great War to the start of the Second World War, so as you can imagine with the centenary of the start of the Great War and its first Christmas happening as I type, there is no more poignant time for him to receive the fitting gift of the poppy and to receive it with the information regarding how his ancestors help preserve our British freedom and way of life will make the poppy and the timing a never to happen again window of opportunity.

With the poppy I wanted to give him as much information regarding his Great Grandfathers as possible as he may one day decide to trace the footsteps of them both and also pass it to his children and by the bicentennial of the Great War starting I would hope the poppies and the history of the sacrifice that the ancestors gave will be documented and passed down the genorations. To this end I have been doing as much research as time will allow from my computer here at home in Beverley East Yorks. I have found a good amount on Harold Hickson in the Second World War and the Hull blitz has been well documented but I keep drawing blanks on George Walker my Grandfather who fought in the first war. I have joined a couple of sites to help me do this, one being Forces War Records and the other Find my past, both sites after hours of searching every possibility and every angle have drawn a blank. I have seen links to other sites but all want paying or to leave card details etc, but I don’t know which ones will have the information I need or just the same leading to blanks. This is where I hope you members can help me and point me in the right direction of what is a good site and which ones just access public record and waste more money. I have spoken to my father, but again he is 85 and says his father spoke little of the war. The details I have I have listed below and wondered and hoped that you may be able to cast some light on this. I am sure you get lots of these requests, but I would love to give my son the whole picture behind his past and I understand if it’s “another free loader” but my request is genuine and I would like the generations to come to know of their families sacrifice for freedom.

Pte. George Walker was born in Hull in 6/12/1894.

I am told he joined the Army in Hull in 1914 as war broke out.

He was in the East Yorkshire Regiment and has the 1914-15 Star.

My father says he was wounded and had a scar on his face from a bayonet? Also that he was trapped in a trench collapse.

My father says that he volunteered to join a secret / hush hush unit that turned out to be the Machine Gun Corps / Tanks in or around 1915 / 16

He was in the Tank Corps at the front and at the end of the war when he was demobbed in 1919.

I have his medals that were sent to him in 1921 and with them is a note / letter dated 1 of April 1921 from the Records office, Tank Corps Records Central Hall Alexandra Palace N.22.

It says on the letter / note

Army Form W. 5112.

I am directed to transmit the accompanying 1914-1915 STAR which was awarded to you in respect of your service with the TANK CORPS.

It goes on to say:

I am to request that you will be so good as to acknowledge the receipt of the decoration on the attached form which is to be returned to the above address in the enclosed addressed envelope, which needs no stamp.

I am,

Your obedient servant,

And is signed by a

H or J Morris

Capt for

Lt. Col

i/c Records

i/c Tank Corps Records.

He has the three medals from the Great War and the all say the same on the side and on the back of the 14-15 star.

3770 PTE. G. WALKER. E. YORK. R.

It’s the number 3770 that I can’t find a trace of or anything to do with the East Yorkshire regiment, Machin Gun Corps or the Tank Corps.

I was hoping to find his service history and the battles he fought in by tracing his regiment history, when he volunteered for the Machine Gun Corps and his transfer to the heavy tanks also which battles he fought in with the tanks.

I hope you can help me or point me in the right direction as I am desperate to pass this information to my son and then hopefully in the future to his kids as well.

Thanks in anticipation.

[John_Hartley]

Welcome to the Forum

Next step - read this link. It will tell you all you need to know about researching a soldier and will also help to demystify some of the jargon adn abbreviations that will inevitably be posted in reply to you. http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/research.html

If there's something you don't follow, come back and someone will be able to explain it better.

John

[ss002d6252]

3770 PTE. G. WALKER. E. YORK. R.

Here's his medal card - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5710501

Craig

[ralphjd]

His Medal Index Card (MIC) is noted 3770 1/4 E.Yorks R and 75952 Tank Corps. Went to France 18 11 1915 .

[jp1885]

His medal index card and medal roll are also on Ancestry.co.uk

If you haven't got access, it's certainly worth going for their free fortnight's offer (remember to cancel just before it expires)

The records show that George was in the 1/4 East Yorkshire Regiment, service number 3770, then Machine Gun Corps, service no. 75952.

He arrived in France 18/11/1915.

EDIT: beaten to the punch by ten minutes - I'm getting slow!

[BFBSM]

Hi,

I have just looked at the IWM site, Livesofthefirstworldwar.org, and have found the following record for George: https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/4585167. This provides you with the service number for when he was serving in the Tank Corps. The Number is: 75992. This page has a link which will take you to the National Archives Site from which you can obtain his Medal Index Card.

From Casualty Records he appears in the Daily List on 26 October 1916:

Forename G Surname Walker Casualty Status Wounded Rank Private Service Number 3770 Regiment E. Yorks R.

From this and the general delay, which was usually 14 to 7 days, I would suggest he was wounded in the September/October period of 1916.

Mark

[tharkin56]

Anybody doig anything on the 97 old boys of Beverley School this could be your son's first project. My first book was Bablake School and the Great War, 96 old boys

[roughdiamond]

One other thing to add, in early 1917, the men serving with the Territorial Force Bn's (of which the 1/4th East Yorks was one) were re-numbered with new 6 digit Army numbers, here's a bit of background on that from "The Long Long Trail" http://www.1914-1918.net/renumbering.htm

A new 6 digit number doesn't appear on his Medal Card suggesting he transferred to the Tank Corps prior to the re-numbering, as BFBSM notes above in post #6 he appears on an casualty list from October 1916, it's possible he transferred after recovery from his wounds/injury, hence no 6 digit number.

Sam

[ss002d6252]

A new 6 digit number doesn't appear on his Medal Card suggesting he transferred to the Tank Corps prior to the re-numbering, as BFBSM notes above in post #6 he appears on an casualty list from October 1916, it's possible he transferred after recovery from his wounds/injury, hence no 6 digit number.

A further expansion of this could be that he spent enough time at home to get a 6 digit T.F. number but as this was home service only under this number it isn't shown on the MIC. Do we know when the Tank Corps number was allocated as this should clarify it.

Craig

[Ken Lees]

A further expansion of this could be that he spent enough time at home to get a 6 digit T.F. number but as this was home service only under this number it isn't shown on the MIC. Do we know when the Tank Corps number was allocated as this should clarify it.

Craig

I thought all numbers after first deployment were shown on the MIC, whether they served overseas with that number or not.

[roughdiamond]

I thought all numbers after first deployment were shown on the MIC, whether they served overseas with that number or not.

After being shot in the head serving with the R. Dubs, my Gt Gt Uncle was returned to the UK and whilst recovering was transferred to the Royal Fusiliers with a "GS" service number for admin purposes until he was discharged to work in the iron industry, he never left the UK after being wounded, but "R Fus" and service number "GS/140747" appears on his MIC.

In addition, some TF men who died in early-mid 1916 were renumbered (presumably because they were at the time classed as "Missing"?) and their 6 digit number appears on their MIC.

Sam

[ss002d6252]

I thought all numbers after first deployment were shown on the MIC, whether they served overseas with that number or not.

Not always in my experience.

For example pvt 2293 Cleasby (overseas 19/4/15) was also 250191 but this isn't shown on his MIC - the 6 digit number is shown on the AVL (I have some other men in the same circumstances re the AVL from info provided by John Sheen).

Craig

[Pte. George Walker]

Hi Everyone,

Well I am taken aback! Thank you so much for the help and information you have given me in a little over 12 hours. Ten times more than my father gave me regarding Granddad in the 52 that I have known him!!

I shall follow your leads, use the recommended sites and I will let you know of my progress. Its very confusing when doing anything like this in any area as there as so many sites that are simply rejigging public information and then selling it, you see it so many times with company information and

alike.

One thing that has come from this is that while drawing a blank on George 3770 I used my time following other things and found where and when my Great Grandfather was killed in the Hull blitz on 18th July 1941. Ironically I past the place a thousand times going into Hull! Also my fathers mother who died in 1931 of TB when my Dad was only 18 months old.

On speaking to my dad and finally getting him to talk about the past (with his mum passing and granddad having to work he was passed from pillar to post between aunts etc so not the happy childhood I think) but he did open up about other stuff like his National Service in the RAF and the Berlin Airlift. He showed me a photograph taken of the last day of the operations board with the last flights on. He and my mum met when in the Civil Defence during the Cold War and he told me about the early warning stations near Withernsea, all fascinating stuff, just a shame he never said anything whilst he never got confused or tired.

Anyway enough of my ramblings, thank you all for your information and guidance, I will comeback and give you the full picture (No groaning at the back)If you come across anything that can help or be of interest, I am all ears. Thanks again, Pete.

[Stebie9173]

I believe the 75XXX numbers in the Tank Corps were issued in late December 1916 and early January 1917 to men transferring into the Heavy Section of the Machine Gun Corps (the numbers were later retained as Tank Corps numbers). This was part of the first expansion of what would become the Tank Corps following their first usage in September 1916.

At that time the Heavy Section of the Machine Gun Corps was being expanded from four companies to nine, so by January 1917 there were nine tank companies/battalions "A" to "I" (later numbered 1 to 9) that a man could have been posted to. There is a nominal roll of men who served in No. 6 Tank Battalion ("F" Company) - he does not appear on that Roll as far as I can see.

Steve.

[Pte. George Walker]

Hi Everyone

Thank you for your help regarding my Grandfather G Walker. I have been trying to find time to follow the leads you have given me and its helped. I have seen and down loaded his medal cards and I have been trying to see which battle could possibly coincide with the casualty time (first or second week of October 16 with the 1/4 East Yorkshire regiment, but not having much luck on that so if you have any ideas or leads on that as that would be good. It appears to me that the 1/4 was sent for rest about that time!

I hope you have a great new year one hundred years later than the very poignant first Christmas of the Great war.

Thank you again. pete

[chaz]

Pete, one thing to remember about families.

whole generations could be wiped out in some cases, my maternal GF was only one of 5 brothers to return. some lost fathers, brothers, cousins etc. it wasnt a talking point in those days. the main thing would have been where is the next meal comming from? who is going to earn money to feed and clothe us?

its only todays generation that is showing great interest,more so because of the 100 year anniversary, the next generation probably wont be interested.

talking general terms that is not a few individuals!!

[SteveMarsdin]

Hi Pete,

Greetings from Market Weighton. If you look on the Long, Long Trail (link at top) and then Regiments, you will see that 1/4th EYR were part of 50th Northumbrian Division. At that time they were involved in the final stages of the Battle of the Somme. People often forget, for understandable reasons, that that battle went on for a lot longer than the 1st July.

[SteveMarsdin]

Hi Pete,

I think this link allows you to buy the download of the war diary covering the likely period of injury. It won't mention your grandfather by name but will give you details of what the battalion was doing.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/2?_q=150&_col=200&_cr1=WO%2095&_dss=range&_ro=any&_hb=tna

[Stebie9173]

I have just had a closer look at the casualty list for the 26th October 1916 (as published in the Times). Here is the list:

Wounded (in two parts as it rolls back to the top of the next column)

and Killed

It was usual to group casualties together (most casualties from a battalion would come through on the same list) so often the men noted as wounded would be wounded at the same time as those list as Killed (Died of Wounds and Missing not so much so).

The men listed as "Killed" in this issue were killed with 1/4th East Yorkshire Regiment on the 15th September 1916 when the battalion most certainly was in action (and hence the severe casualty list). The 1/4th Battalion were involved in very heavy fighting at Martinpuich that day. Perhaps not entirely coincidentally the attack on Martinpuich was supported by two of the first tanks to be deployed in battle. I suspect he may well have seen the tanks in action that day.

Steve.

[17tankman]

George Walker was in the A battalion Tank Corps which became the 1st Battalion Tank corps

Hope this helps

17tankman

[Whalebone]

4th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment War Diary

14 September 1916

10am Drew stores and equipment from Brigade Dump

1015pm The Battalion moved by Coys (2) to Swansea Trench to take up positions for attack on morning 15^th. Casualties 10 Other Ranks wounded.

15 September 1916

6.00am Bombardment commenced.

6.03am The first Tank crossed our line and proceeded northwards towards enemy lines.

6.15am Enemy put up Red Star rockets. Tanks reached the hill top.

6.20am Infantry crept up and advanced from our assembly trenches. The Battalion was formed up in four lines of 3 platoons in each line, one from each of three Coys B,C, and D right to left, A Coy in support at SWANSEA Trench. Battalion HQ close by in rear of 'S' trench.

6.32am Enemy Barrage our front line.

6.42am Verbal report that front line was taken.

6.44am B,C and D Coys reported first objective taken. Casualties slight.

7.08am B Coy report have taken first objective but am rather too much to my left. The troops on my right have gone on and taken some of my men with them. I think the trench was fairly to the left.

7.26am Sent Small Arms Ammunition and rations forward.

7.58am B and D Coys reported second objective reached and taken with very few casualties.

8.50am Heavy Machine Gun fire reported from MARTINPUICH.

12noon OC 7^th Northumberland Fusiliers (on our right) rang up to report that they were 150yds short of their second objective the left flank (BOW trench) M.33b.4.7.

1.30pm OC C Coy reports by orderly that he hold 2^nd objective not 3^rd. Orderly reports Germans in large numbers in trench ahead (probably STARFISH line). OC C Coy reports that owing to the right flank being exposed (the next Battalion not having reached their objective) it was impossible for him to advance further until they caught up and established connection.

4.48pm Message from 150^th Infantry Brigade Artillery will bombard front M.33b.5.6. to M.34a.5.6. Including junction at crescent.

4.50pm Our right flank again reported 'in the air' 15^th Division patrols reported to have advanced 300 to 400 yards through MARTINPUICH. C Company patrols advanced 300 yards but could see nothing of the enemy.

5.35pm CO asked brigade whether or not to seize Starfish Line.

7.05pm Operation Order 3 received

16 September 1916

12.30am Commanding Officer takes up written orders to Officers Commanding Coys to re-organize the Battalion.

3.30am Battalion Headquarters moved to MARTIN ALLEY. OC A Coy and Dressing Station etc left in SOMMEVALLEY, C, D, B Coys formed up in trenches east of MARTIN ALLEY in form of triangle.

8.40am 150^th Infantry Brigade ordered to take part in 4^th Army offensive. 5^th Durham Light Infantry to assault and take STARFISH LINE supported by one Coy 4^th Yorkshire Regiment and one Coy 4^th East Yorks. D Coy ordered to support 5^th Durham Light Infantry.

9.10am Barrage began

9.30am Assault took place. B Coy were also drawn into the assault, which missed its objective, bearing towards MARTINPUICH.

10.15am 2^nd Lt Rollet came in wounded.

10.30am 2^nd Lt Boyle reported that D Coy and B Coy on the night of the attack had been exposed to enfilade fire from the right flank and suffered heavy casualties, being then laid out in the open at about M.33.b.1.0. 2^nd Lt Philips wounded, died of wounds before reaching the advanced dressing station, trenches heavily shelled all day by the enemy.

10.00pm Trenches held by the Brigade were re-allotted and the Battalion returned by Coys to the O.G.1 line near Bazentin le Petit Wood.

17 September 1916

Casualties since noon 14^th September 1916. 2^nd Lt JH Grainger, 2^nd Lt WHS Phillips, Killed. Captain KA Wilson Barkworth, 2^nd Lt H Rollet, 2^nd Lt BV Hildyard, 2^nd Lt GH Lofthouse, 2^nd Lt FE Furley, 2^nd Lt G Lisham, Lt WW Harrison, 2^nd Lt CS Johnson, 2^nd Lt CM Young, and 2^nd Lt W Joy wounded. 30 Other Ranks Killed including 3 NCOs. 195 Other Ranks Wounded, including 22 NCOs and 13 Other Ranks Missing.

Field State 14 Officers and 370 Other Ranks.

[Pte. George Walker]

Thank you all

I have purchased and down loaded the War Dairy's. They make for fascinating reading. I can see that George would have been most likely wounded over this 14-16-17 of September period, but it seems a long time until its in the Times list on the 26th of October. Is there an opportunity to find medical records and to see if he was sent back to England?

The Somme was always famous in my mind for the first days and unfortunately the rest of the action in that area seems to be overlooked, but looking at just this battle of MARTINPUICH and its obvious that the lives taken and changed by injury is still huge. All this is such an eye opener, thanks for opening them for me.

As I live near a ferry port and the Somme is just a short drive at the other side I will take my son there in the new year and have a look and pay our respects.

Pete

[Stebie9173]

The delay to publication of these lists grew as the war went on. It was only in the earliest days of the war that the delay was only a couple of weeks. Four to six weeks was the standard after the Somme got underway. Officer casualties tended to be the only ones reported with a week or two. I am as certain as I can be that the date of wounding was mid-September 1916. Most medical documents were intentionally destroyed after the war and only a sample kept (the Leicestershire Regiment, basically as far as infantry goes) and service records went (accidentally) during the Blitz.

Local papers of the time (on microfilm at larger local libraries, with some now coming online) would be the best bet to determine more information about his wounding. One would imagine that the wound was comparatively "light" bearing in mind the timescale of his transfer to the Heavy Section of the Machine Gun Corps.

Steve.

[Pte. George Walker]

Hi Steve and everyone.

Thanks for your response to my post yesterday. The timescale of the battle on the 15/9/15 and the casualty list on the 26/10/15 stumped me for a while and I was looking for further action closer to the listing as I thought the 7 to 14 delay was set in stone. As I said yesterday I have now got to grips with the magnitude and the scale of the whole situation and it makes sense that with the size of the job in hand and technology of the time that 5 or 6 weeks could pass before the casualty list was posted and I suspect that the information could have been thought to be useful to the enemy if it was public any earlier.

I think that his wound was not a major one and my dads story of the bayonet may or may not be family Chinese whispers. I would love to find out and see if it was true, also my father told me that George was buried in a trench collapse during shelling and was dug out alive obviously. This is from the September the 16th War Diaries and says that enemy shelled the trenches that day.

10.30am 2^nd Lt Boyle reported that D Coy and B Coy on the night of the attack had been exposed to enfilade fire from the right flank and suffered heavy casualties, being then laid out in the open at about M.33.b.1.0. 2^nd Lt Philips wounded, died of wounds before reaching the advanced dressing station, trenches heavily shelled all day by the enemy.

10.00pm Trenches held by the Brigade were re-allotted and the Battalion returned by Coys to the O.G.1 line near Bazentin le Petit Wood.

If I take the bayonet part of the story with a pinch of salt and consider the trench collapse the more likely option and he could have been wounded in that as well, getting him sent back to the dressing station or even further back to receive attention. Whilst he healed and having seen those 2 tanks on the 15th, when the chance to volunteer for the tanks came he could have taken it. My Grandfather was an Iron worker in civilian life, he made trawler hulls according to my father for Rosedown and Thompson a Hull company and according to the 1911 census his trade was Iron worker. So I can see a natural interest in the heavy tanks and also an opportunity for perceived self preservation.

It could be that I should start thinking more about the Tank Corps half of his service and try and see what he did in the corps. His trade may have had him patching or repairing the tanks, or he could have manned them. As you said in a previous post that his second number 75952 was an early Tank corps number from around December or January 1917 and that's not long after his wounded period I think.

Thanks again for all your help and insight.

Pete

[ss002d6252]

As I said yesterday I have now got to grips with the magnitude and the scale of the whole situation and it makes sense that with the size of the job in hand and technology of the time that 5 or 6 weeks could pass before the casualty list was posted and I suspect that the information could have been thought to be useful to the enemy if it was public any earlier.

Even longer in some cases - I know of ones that took 3-4 months to appear on a list.

Craig