4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 Two snapshots of a dignitary of some sort (is he identifiable) visiting with what is probably (based on Feldpost mark) 2 Batterie Feldrtillerie-Regiment 217 the two images are on trimmed cards dated 4/9/1916 and 10/9/1916 The second image shows quite a few bayonets which may be of interest to some! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 I can' work out WHERE it appears to read Besiska or Besisha ? but I am struggling to identify any such place. Besista = Bešište/FYROM, about 30km southeast of Prilep. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 Besista = Bešište/FYROM, about 30km southeast of Prilep. Adrian Thanks very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 it appears that perhaps the lower one is covered by a band of (coloured?) material would this have identified a particular role or am I seeing something that is not there? indeed camouflage band, normally there was a cut in the band to allow the lowest cockade to be exposed regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 The beer bottles above have text embossed on them. Any idea what it says? Not Grolsch anyway. The award is of course the little-known precursor to the famous WWII award, the Blutwurst Orden. Sorry. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 The beer bottles above have text embossed on them. Any idea what it says? Not Grolsch anyway. Dave About the best I can do: Chris W. ?AUM ????UISBURG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 it appears that perhaps the lower one is covered by a band of (coloured?) material would this have identified a particular role or am I seeing something that is not there? indeed camouflage band, normally there was a cut in the band to allow the lowest cockade to be exposed regards, Cnock Thanks - so to make sure I understand The cap (what is the correct name for these feldmutze? or is that something different?) would have had a coloured band (designating unit? arm of service Infantry etc) which was covered on active service by a feldgrau band? Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 camouflage band as seen in post nr.149 Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 About the best I can do: bottle1.jpg bottle2.jpg Chris W. ?AUM ????UISBURG I'm seeing Daum and there is an old brewery by that name. Not much to go on.. http://daumbraeu.bplaced.net/CMS/WB/pages/historisches.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 The bottles are from the Brauerei W. Daum, Ortelsburg (now Szczytno/Poland). Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 I managed a couple more scans: In this first one the unit is identified (12 Kompany 5th Reserve Infantry Regiment?) the uniform question has to do with the caps the man centre and on his left. They appeared to have only once cockard but on closer examination it appears that perhaps the lower one is covered by a band of (coloured?) material would this have identified a particular role or am I seeing something that is not there? 2w.jpg Chris Fritz Limbach writes , in April 1915 : “Ich gehe auch immer mit der Mütze. Den roten Streifen habe ich mir der Vorsichtshalber noch grau überzogen” "I also only wear my cap. I have covered the red stripe with grey, as a precaution" (The red stood out too much I reckon.) This one is not so much uniform as what is written on the reverse. It shows a funeral and if I have the gist of the translation it is of individuals killed by bombing (from an aircraft) on 11 May 1917 (or the funeral was on May 11.) - I can' work out WHERE it appears to read Besiska or Besisha ? but I am struggling to identify any such place. On the full image you can see it is a rather bare hillside. 1w.jpg Reverse 1back.jpg Chris The text: "Beerdigung die, am 11 Mai 1917 durch Fliegerbombe, gefallenen 4 Kameraden in Besista." "Funeral in Besista of the 4 Kameraden killed by aerial bombs on 11 may 1917" Or is there a full stop between "Gefallenen" and "4 Kameraden" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 The bottles are from the Brauerei W. Daum, Ortelsburg (now Szczytno/Poland). daum4.jpg Adrian Outstanding. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 Or is there a full stop between "Gefallenen" and "4 Kameraden" ? No I don't believe so it is the end of the n tailing off into the next word. I assume that the list is the names/ranks of the 4 comrades. Thanks, Adrian for the definitive ID on the bottles.... and now the big question - what style of beer? (cf thread on dark German beers) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2015 Share Posted 25 January , 2015 Lots of hits in the interweb for the brewery. Mostly in German. Looks like the brewery was a victim of hostilities.. http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,0174611110,language,G.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 Couple more: This one is in poor shape - but shows some nice warm coats - and a big car! And this is a nice identified officers group of the II (?) Ersatz(?) Batt. 133 Reserve Infantry Regiment. Interesting variations in dress of the officers. Would the tunic (left of centre) and the capes (right of centre) have been fairly bright blue? (rendered very light by the film?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 26 January , 2015 Share Posted 26 January , 2015 Two snapshots of a dignitary of some sort (is he identifiable) visiting with what is probably (based on Feldpost mark) 2 Batterie Feldrtillerie-Regiment 217 The second image shows quite a few bayonets which may be of interest to some! Re your post #151, both photos are taken at the same time, the officer up towards the front with the papers is in both images ... Very interesting looking up close at those bayonets, the one in the centre took me a while to figure out, but far right appears to be your regular S98/05. Now this other shorter one with the rounded stud steel scabbard, should be your "special quiz mystery bayonet". But I reckon it's a Mexican M1912.! That's about the only thing I can think of that would have that type of oval stud & steel scabbard. These were in OEWG stores when the war began. Other points to note with this one is the low muzzle-ring, slightly angled end of the grips, and the very square looking pommel. It's the odd one out.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 January , 2015 Share Posted 26 January , 2015 This one is not so much uniform as what is written on the reverse. It shows a funeral and if I have the gist of the translation it is of individuals killed by bombing (from an aircraft) on 11 May 1917 (or the funeral was on May 11.) - I can' work out WHERE it appears to read Besiska or Besisha ? but I am struggling to identify any such place. On the full image you can see it is a rather bare hillside. I assume that the four names on the back are those of the four deceased, and as it seems that they were rear-echelon types (EDIT: on the basis of their ranks/grades), then yes, killed in a bombing raid. I also did a quick Gräbersuche Online for these names for Todes-/Vermisstendatum: Mai 1917 and nothing obvious came up - all of the matches for Dietrich, for example, are buried in western cemeteries. So, a scratch of the head as what first got my attention in this photograph was the headwear of the chaps on the left - I am no uniform expert, but it doesn't look German Reich issue to me - but happy to be corrected! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 January , 2015 Share Posted 26 January , 2015 Now this other shorter one with the rounded stud steel scabbard, should be your "special quiz mystery bayonet". But I reckon it's a Mexican M1912.! Well done that man! Yes, one of those Steyr-made Central- and Latin-American contract bayonets of the 1912-1914 period, and most probably a Mexican as according to one source that contract was being satisfed in the financial year 1913/1914. Of course I can't find the reference right now (and I have to go work soon), but that very distinctive tapered frog-stud for the 95/08 is, I think, characteristic of Wurttemburg scabbards. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 January , 2015 Share Posted 26 January , 2015 Re your post #151, both photos are taken at the same time, the officer up towards the front with the papers is in both images ... Very interesting looking up close at those bayonets, the one in the centre took me a while to figure out, but far right appears to be your regular S98/05. Now this other shorter one with the rounded stud steel scabbard, should be your "special quiz mystery bayonet". But I reckon it's a Mexican M1912.! Yes, one of those Steyr-made Central- and Latin-American contract bayonets of the 1912-1914 period, and most probably a Mexican as according to one source that contract was being satisfed in the financial year 1913/1914. Of course I can't find the reference ... but that very distinctive tapered frog-stud for the 95/08 is, I think, characteristic of Wurttemburg scabbards. Still haven't found that reference for the frog stud... As to those Mexican etc. 1912 bayonets, note that there is a thread here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?186113-Austrian-Issued-Mexican-1912-Bayonet Interestingly, on the basis of his troddel, the man with that bayonet and wearing the shako is a low-ranking NCO or even ordinary soldier! Note also that of the four others wearing bayonets, two of those with 98/05's are officers (they have portepees) conforming with the Prussian War Ministry regulation of 19th July 1915 that regimental officers in the field replace their swords with S98/05. I assume that the guy in the background with the 98/05 is also an officer but he has no portepee. The only exceptions to this rule - the wearing of the 98/05 by officers - were airmen and airship personnel, who could wear the kS98. That is probably what the (staff) officer at the left front has - note again the portepee indicating his status - and the evidence suggests that many field and staff officers preferred and carried this as opposed to the 98/05, the majority of these short jobs apparently being private purchases. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 27 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2015 Another for the handwriting experts... Interesting view of a stripped Machine Gun.... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2015 Share Posted 27 January , 2015 There is a history of the Korps here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpathenkorps. ... As for the badge, then to fill out what SS has offered, I understand that the Karpathenkorps-Abzeichen was instituted on 7.4.1917 for those who served with the Korps for a minimum of 2 months On the basis that a search for the Karpathenkorps or Karpathenkorps-Abzeichen or for the Carpathian Corps or Carpathian Corps Badge would likely bring visitors here, I am just adding for the sake of completeness a little more data that I stumbled upon and which is not in or which contradicts the Wiki entry - with no guarantee as to the accuracy of those alternative sources of course!... 1) The Carpathian Corps was indeed predominately Prussian, and the only other Bavarian units I can add are: bayerische Gebirgs-MG-Abteilung Nr. 206; bayerische Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abteilung Nr.2; bayerische Gebirgs-Artillerie-Abteilung Nr.4 2) One source claims that the wearing of this badge was authorised by Wilhelm II on July 11 1916 and that the first badges were awarded in August that year, and that permission to continue wearing the badge after the Corps was dissolved in December 1917 was granted on June 10 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2015 Share Posted 27 January , 2015 Two snapshots of a dignitary of some sort (is he identifiable) visiting with what is probably (based on Feldpost mark) 2 Batterie Feldrtillerie-Regiment 217 the two images are on trimmed cards dated 4/9/1916 and 10/9/1916 4detail.jpg A quick peek in over lunch... Well, he has got the collar insignia of a general, but which grade? Have a closer look - if I understand it correctly, then a Generalmajor has no star; a Generalleutnant has one star; a General of the Infanterie / Kavallerie / Artillerie has two stars; and a Generaloberst three. I don't think he can be any higher than that as then we are into the real big guys, and if he was one of them he should be immediately recogniseable! But, if the grade can be narrowed down that would help... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 27 January , 2015 Share Posted 27 January , 2015 Another for the handwriting experts... Interesting view of a stripped Machine Gun.... MGunit1917.jpg Chris Erinnerung an Schloß Velu (France?) Sommeschlacht 1916/1917 Der Waffenmeister beim ausbilden seiner Gehilfen. Souvenir of Chateau Vélu (France?) Battle of the Somme 1916/1917 The armourer teaching his pupils. Not too sure about that last word in the first sentence, and is "Armourer" a correct translation for "Waffenmeister"? (Wikipedia and dict.cc seem to think so...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2015 Share Posted 27 January , 2015 ... and is "Armourer" a correct translation for "Waffenmeister"? (Wikipedia and dict.cc seem to think so...) Yes and no! Waffenmeister can and is usually translated as 'armourer', but according to my copy of the DVE of 1909 the correct pre- and early WW1 period name for an armourer seems to have been zeughausbuchsenmacher(!), but in my copy that word has been crossed out and altered (according to an official amendment) to read zeughauswaffenmeister... Waffenmeister would be best translated directly - weapons instructor/specialist, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 27 January , 2015 Share Posted 27 January , 2015 Yep, I'll go with weaponsinstructor ! Thanks Trajan. I was playing with "weaponsmaster" or something, I just couldn't get the right word. And a Zeughaus is where they keep the weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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