trajan Posted 1 January , 2015 Share Posted 1 January , 2015 Re your post #109 (bottom) and again #113 This chap will be from a Flieger-Bataillon (see shoulder board insignia) which was attached to the Garde Korps (see Garde collar Litzen) Most likely Flieger-Bataillon Nr.1 which you could confirm with a close look at the number shown on the shoulder board. It's not too clear. Cheers, S>S Thanks SS - I thought more likely to be flieger as I indicated in post no. 113. And yes, those litzen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 January , 2015 Share Posted 1 January , 2015 Difficult to see anything identifiable here but as most of them have swords would that suggest cavalry? (swords appear different) Re post #123... ... And those swords are a mystery to me. They don't look much like regular cavalry as they have the Brandenburg cuffs. Maybe Landwehr cavalry.? Another interesting one... I don't think cavalry as only one guy has the cavalry buckle... Those swords all have basket-type hilts, and so at first I thought officer's swords? BUT, there are no obvious officers and two of them have NCO rank badges, the rest nowt... However, IIRC, the men in the Train battalions (in the sense of supply trains) also carried swords? They would be mounted and so swords would be appropriate. And note the seemingly very high riding(?) boots worn by the two chaps on the right. Trajan EDIT: I did a quick google, and a few hits came up for Train Battalion swords, almost all for officers, e.g., http://www.antique-swords.eu/I52-German-WW1-Train-Battalion-Officers.html, but a common characteristic of these swords seems to be the single scabbard attachment loop, which is what appears with some of the scabbards on the photograph, although the man with the EKII on the right has the two scabbard attachment loops usual with a cavalry sword. There doesn't seem to be a lot about these Train battalion swords on the English language web, but a quick glance at German Google suggests from the inscriptions and markings on some of these Train Battalion swords that they could be (I), regular service issue; or (II), private purchase; or (III), unit purchase private items that were then issued to the men - rather like the Volunteer bayonets in the 19th century UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 1 January , 2015 Share Posted 1 January , 2015 The cemetery photo shows Block 4, Graves (right to left) 276, 277 & 278 at Bray-sur-Somme German Cemetery. 276: Gefreiter Reinhold Müller, 1. Kp. RIR 232, died 29.6.18.277: Wehrmann Kasimir Derezinski, 10. Kp. RIR 232, died 27.6.18.278: Musketier Heinrich Beykirch, 2.(?) Kp. RIR 232, died 26.6.18. In the background, either side of Müller's grave, there is Grave 248, Ersatz-Reservist Erwin Lichtenfeldt, unit illegible, died 28.6.18, and 249, Ersatz-Reservist Paul Ziesche, 14.(? or 11.) Kp. RIR 232, died 29.6.18. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2015 Thank you very much for identifying those Adrian. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 January , 2015 Share Posted 1 January , 2015 post-14525-0-98732300-1420041943.jpg However, IIRC, the men in the Train battalions (in the sense of supply trains) also carried swords? They would be mounted and so swords would be appropriate. And note the seemingly very high riding(?) boots worn by the two chaps on the right. I am now a bit more more certain it is a Train Battalion - a German site gives their weaponry as: "Karabiner 88 / Unteroffiziere Revolver" and "Kavalleriedegen / Portepee-Unteroffiziere Kavallerie-Offizierssäbel" There were some 21 of these units, plus one for the Guards, each with a distinctive combination of collars and cuffs... EDIT: And now I am less certain as it seems that Train Battalions had Swedish cuffs and these guys have Brandenburg cuffs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 2 January , 2015 Share Posted 2 January , 2015 Difficult to see anything identifiable here but as most of them have swords would that suggest cavalry? (swords appear different) Re the group shown in post #123 and again above in #128 This one is problematic as they present in standard Infanterie uniforms (with the Brandenburg cuffs) but are shown holding the Cavalry Swords, so a bit tricky.? I checked on this and now believe they are a group of the 'Mounted troops' from an Infanterie Regiment. So some sub-unit that would be supporting the Infantry. I found a reference* to the Kavallerie-Säbel being regular issue to the berittene unteroffiziere (mounted NCO's) of an Infanterie-Regiment as at the start of the war. I realise these are not all NCO's however this info sheds a little light on the possibilities. Imagine the number of horse drawn support wagons behind a Regiment.? (And while there were Train-Bataillone in the Imperial Army these were Armee Korps troops. Each Infanterie-Regiment also had its own dedicated Train/Transport) Cheers, S>S EDIT. * = "Führer durch Heer und Flotte", B.Freidag 1914 (original source) with information more recently compiled & republished by John Walter in various titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 2 January , 2015 Share Posted 2 January , 2015 quote SS: This chap will be from a Flieger-Bataillon (see shoulder board insignia) which was attached to the Garde Korps (see Garde collar Litzen) Most likely Flieger-Bataillon Nr.1 which you could confirm with a close look at the number shown on the shoulder board. It's not too clear. Normally they wear the Garde Litzen when they had their training at Guards barracks. regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 2 January , 2015 Share Posted 2 January , 2015 Normally they wear the Garde Litzen when they had their training at Guards barracks. Thanks Cnock, this is not an area that I know that much about. I do know that the Flieger-Bataillon Nr.1 was originally attached to the Garde Korps. But it does appear (upon checking further) that the use of this 'Garde-style litzen' was more common amongst the Flieger than I had at first thought. And apparently recruits that transferred across from other services would be allowed to keep wearing the uniform of their previous Regiment or Unit.! So this would add to the confusion. I think single litzen was for the OR's and double for the Officers. Or this guy was originally from the Garde Korps.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 January , 2015 Share Posted 3 January , 2015 Re your post #109 (bottom) and again #113 This chap will be from a Flieger-Bataillon (see shoulder board insignia) which was attached to the Garde Korps (see Garde collar Litzen) Most likely Flieger-Bataillon Nr.1 which you could confirm with a close look at the number shown on the shoulder board. It's not too clear. Cheers, S>S At: https://www.weitze.net/onload/shop/gastfotos/17/194017/194017.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 January , 2015 Share Posted 3 January , 2015 Re post no.109 (bottom) and no. 113, for reference re: Flieger Batallion no. 1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 January , 2015 Share Posted 3 January , 2015 Download the pdf from http://www.grensland-docs.nl/brondocumenten/monograms-of-german-regiments-1914-1918/ After viewing that PDF with all those epaulettes, how about this wall-hanging? Reproduced from:http://wiki-commons.genealogy.net/images/c/c7/Wandteppich.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 3 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2015 This is a different style of uniform it seems to me.. This card is marked (printed) on the reverse Photograph Vahlendick, Lockstedter Lager 1912 In this one my German combined with script reading ability has failed me in understanding what the chalkboard means... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 January , 2015 Share Posted 3 January , 2015 This is a different style of uniform it seems to me.. 235w.jpg This card is marked (printed) on the reverse Photograph Vahlendick, Lockstedter Lager 1912 In this one my German combined with script reading ability has failed me in understanding what the chalkboard means... 234w.jpg Chris Quick guess, top one looks like 1915 tunic for Pioneer - they had (IIRC) Black tunics. But can we see the reverse as that date(?)of 1912 doesn't agree with a 1915 type fly-fronted tunic. Or is 1912 the date the barracks were opened? Don't know, corrections and wrist-slapping expected, in this often thankless task, and no time to go any further - but do check out: http://www.ebay.it/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Militaria%20Uniform%20Waffen%20Militar%20Soldaten%20Foto%20AK%201912%20Lockstedter%20Lager%2018&_itemId=360969267990 Second is something about preparing for the muster call (obvious really - polishing bits and pieces and mention of Ap(p)ell...). I'll let somebody else write out the transcript and translation as it is time for bed for me Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 5 January , 2015 Share Posted 5 January , 2015 This is a different style of uniform it seems to me.. This card is marked (printed) on the reverse Photograph Vahlendick, Lockstedter Lager 1912 Re your post #138 (top) This pair in the very dark looking dress appear to be wearing the Dunkelblau (dark blue) M1893 Litewka tunics, most easily identified by the concealed front and the gathered cuffs. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted 5 January , 2015 Share Posted 5 January , 2015 Re post no.109 (bottom) and no. 113, for reference re: Flieger Batallion no. 1: flieger.jpg Is that a young Herman Goering by any chance ? The face looks rather familiar ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 January , 2015 Share Posted 9 January , 2015 Re the group shown in post #123 and again above in #128... I checked on this and now believe they are a group of the 'Mounted troops' from an Infanterie Regiment. So some sub-unit that would be supporting the Infantry. I found a reference* to the Kavallerie-Säbel being regular issue to the berittene unteroffiziere (mounted NCO's) of an Infanterie-Regiment as at the start of the war. I realise these are not all NCO's however this info sheds a little light on the possibilities. Imagine the number of horse drawn support wagons behind a Regiment.? EDIT. * = "Führer durch Heer und Flotte", B.Freidag 1914 (original source) with information more recently compiled & republished by John Walter in various titles. I was never very happy with SS's ID as it seemed to me to be that there were too many non-NCO's here. Indeed, a bit of searching through the literature suggests there are very few units with men of both grades carrying Kavallerie-Säbel , and all of them seem to be Train battalion or attached units - e.g., a Feld-Backerie Kolonne with a Trainbattalion... Well, the cuffs here seem to rule out a train battalion... Moreover, as far as I can establish from German sources the only men with a KSäbel in an Infanterie-Regiment were the regiment's two only Train-unteroffiziere. So not enough there from one unit... Now, if they were Artillerie-Säbel that would be a different story! So, are we all on the wrong track? Have the swords been correctly identified? Might they be kurassier degan? In which case these would be men from a cavalry unit... Perhaps SS will check his books? I am working without anything of mine, just what I can find in Oxford libraries - not entirely comprehensive when it comes to WW1 German units OR blankwaffen!!! And so I happily stand ready to be corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Juat browsing through this on my first free day in donks... and came up with... What is the collar insignia on the chap front right as we look? So, a possibility... Might this be some kind of medical orderly badge? See e.g, this on your post of a German medic group no.17: or this on a German medic at at http://www.gwpda.org/photos/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=22 Note also the strange shoulder tabs on that marching (?) officer on your post no. 11. For what it's worth (not a lot!), JWK and I have both noticed the similarity to the collar badges worn by Ottoman medical staff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 20 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Thanks for your continued interest and observations. I had to take a break from scanning as the new semester approached but after the chaos of the first weeks subsides I may be able to add a few more. I have been furiously noting down comments and following up on the pictures... so thanks for your responses and those of SS et al Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2015 Here is one for now - which I suspect may not be military but may be uniformed railway employees or some such (although the chap in the center does appear to have two cockarden) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2015 And this one appears to be crying out for a suitably pythonesque caption! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 January , 2015 Share Posted 21 January , 2015 Here is one for now - which I suspect may not be military but may be uniformed railway employees or some such (although the chap in the center does appear to have two cockarden) They do seem to be winged wheels and so railway (or perhaps strassenbahn?) badges on their hats, with imperial or state crowns over them. The collar badges look to be miniature locomotives - IIRC, the 3rd Reich period railway and strassenbahn drivers had something like these on their collars, so perhaps also in the pre-Weimar period? And this one appears to be crying out for a suitably pythonesque caption! Yes, but this time of the morning not enough tea yet to think of anything relating to receiving the order of the knackwurst... Trajan PS: With you on getting ready for teaching although our semester doesn't start for a few days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 January , 2015 Share Posted 21 January , 2015 Here is one for now - which I suspect may not be military but may be uniformed railway employees or some such (although the chap in the center does appear to have two cockarden) This is a postcard of 1915 showing a railway official = reproduced here for reference from: http://www.ebay.de/itm/tolle-Foto-AK-Schaffner-in-Uniform-mit-Schirmmutze-1915-/301465812755?pt=Ansichtskarte_Zubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item4630c33f13 Note that this guy is in a dark blue, yours are in a light blue, and so with those light coloured cockades, are probably Bavarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 21 January , 2015 Share Posted 21 January , 2015 In this one my German combined with script reading ability has failed me in understanding what the chalkboard means... 234w.jpg Chris Re that sign they're holding up : I read it as something like "Better be well prepared for roll call, otherwise you're gonna have it" that's why they're all frantically polishing their boots, mending their clothes, cleaning their rifles etc And yes, that other picture screams for a caption, something like "I hereby pronounce you Knight Commander of the Order of the Knackwurst" or something, but I don't have the inspiration right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 I managed a couple more scans: In this first one the unit is identified (12 Kompany 5th Reserve Infantry Regiment?) the uniform question has to do with the caps the man centre and on his left. They appeared to have only once cockard but on closer examination it appears that perhaps the lower one is covered by a band of (coloured?) material would this have identified a particular role or am I seeing something that is not there? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2015 This one is not so much uniform as what is written on the reverse. It shows a funeral and if I have the gist of the translation it is of individuals killed by bombing (from an aircraft) on 11 May 1917 (or the funeral was on May 11.) - I can' work out WHERE it appears to read Besiska or Besisha ? but I am struggling to identify any such place. On the full image you can see it is a rather bare hillside. Reverse Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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