German Uniform Photos

[4thGordons]

They look to me to be 1910 tunics with Swedish cuffs, a pattern that began to be replaced from about 1916 with simpler cuffs. I can't quite make out the cockade, and unfortunately, Swedish cuffs were used by several of the German states. If we can have a better view of the cockades that might help identify the State.

Here is the best I can do: And when doing this I noticed a "9" (?) epaulette number and a collar button rank insignia?

Again, a close up of the cap cockades will be useful, but those are - I think - 1910 tunics and Brandenburg cuffs.

Not sure if it will help much but again - about the best I can manage

[4thGordons]

Here are a couple more individual shots:

A different sort of collar insignia (VIII 5) dated 28/12/1915 and a fairly clear view of the belt buckle

and a formal portrait with shoulder number (8? or B?) dated 30/10/15 and a very plain belt -- with a sword

[4thGordons]

Dated 25/12/16 -- 36 (?) shoulder number, collar rank disk signifying....? and medal ribbon with a small cross on.

[JWK]

JWK - thanks for those leads, I thought about "Kurrent" but I am not sure - here is a quick scan of the reverse - the line I was referring to is that written in ink

Zur Erinnerung an

3: Komp. Landw. Inf. Regt. No 16

Addressed to

H Schenk

Velbert, Rhld (= Rheinland)

Langenbergerstrasse 7B

On the far left:

Besten dank fur ihrer packetchen

(Many thanks for your little parcel)

And then this line in the middle :

I can’t read it properly but it think it says something along the lines of “Das grössten Kreuz dass bin ich”

(The biggest cross that is me)

Is there a pencilled-in cross somewhere on the picture ? Can’t find it on the scan. Edit: Found it, there's a black cross right in the middle of the picture.

[trajan]

Here are a couple more individual shots:

A different sort of collar insignia (VIII 5) dated 28/12/1915 and a fairly clear view of the belt buckle

40detailVIII5.jpg

A quick one as I have to go to dinner with the tour group I am leading. This top one looks to be Landsturm? I am away from home and books and cannot check, but IIRC, the Roman number indicates a Landsturm in an Armee Korps, so 8th AK, and the bottom number is the number of the unit in the corps, and so 5th. And so I guess Landsturm VIII Armee Korps, 5 Landsturm Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon. The VIII Armee-Korps was centred on Koblenz, but their 5th Landsturm were at Andernach.

[JWK]

Re the postcard in post #17 and the message on that postcard in post #22 :

It was written by Gefreiter Wilhelm Harter, born 6^th March 1885, from Marienfelde, Eckernförde.

The Verlustliste of 8 Jan 1917 mentions:

“Previously reported as captured. Was imprisoned in Montauban, Toulouse and Agen. Exchanged”

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/5491845

And the message is pretty straightforward:

To Frau Frieda Harter

Kiel

Ringstrasse 13

Allemagne

Schlesw. Holst. [= Schleswig-Holstein]

Dear loved ones (or "My beloved"),

Send you herewith the photo you have wanted for so long. Hopefully it arrives this time. Letter will follow as soon as possible. Greetings and a kiss from your Vadi [= Vati (Daddy)? . Or it could very well be the Kosename by which he was known to his wife – as the card is addressed to Frau Frieda, and not Fräulein Frieda…)

“Extra photo in the letter”

“From: Wilhelm Harter, 4^th Company”

And attached an enhanced version of that purple stamp.

I would like to read in it “Dept des Prisonniers de Guerre …… “ starting at about 10 o'clock, but that could be wishful thinking.

[4thGordons]

Superb stuff JWK thank you very much.

I had got most of the translation but certainly not the confirmation that Harter had been captured.

I will see if I can provide a better scan of the purple stamp.

Chris

and it would appear it is NOT just wishful thinking on your part! Thank you again.

[4thGordons]

OK after a few more scans:

Some smaller (these are just are about 5cm by 3cm) more damaged ones (also perhaps older?)

The second one in particular looks much older - he might be armed with a Dreyse needle gun - perhaps making the picture MUCH earlier?

[4thGordons]

A hut group....with one man wearing some fairly impressive shoulder wings. Some nice pipes too.

[trajan]

A quick one as I have to go to dinner with the tour group I am leading. This top one looks to be Landsturm? I am away from home and books and cannot check, but IIRC, the Roman number indicates a Landsturm in an Armee Korps, so 8th AK, and the bottom number is the number of the unit in the corps, and so 5th. And so I guess Landsturm VIII Armee Korps, 5 Landsturm Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon. The VIII Armee-Korps was centred on Koblenz, but their 5th Landsturm were at Andernach.

So much back-and-forthing I thought it best to reproduce the photograph here!

Just to add that it looks like he has the pre-war Prussian buckle, 'silver' on brass.

[trajan]

2.jpg

(undated, blank divided back . Newspaper appears to be Hetz? Chalked sign above fireplace reads "...andres shlickeit"

What is the collar insignia on the chap front right as we look?

Shoulder tabs appear to have a 2 on them

The chaps with the lace trim on their collars: the trim is a gold colour, IIRC, and indicates a junior NCO, but as there are no NCO discs on the collars, above shoulders, this shows - I think - that these are Unteroffizier, so in a sense sergeant-elects. But caution, I am away from home and so just working on memory - but a lead you can follow up! Also, there seems to be a mix of field and dress (or pre-1910) uniform tunics in this one and the companion in your post no. 3.

[trajan]

The chap on right holding the rifle wears a schutzenschnur on his right shoulder denoting that he's a marksman. (Apologies if that's obvious!).

He has one acorn, so IIRC, he is a 'junior' grade marksman.

[trajan]

Here is the best I can do: And when doing this I noticed a "9" (?) epaulette number and a collar button rank insignia?

7cockade.jpg

Yes, looks like a 9 - so Colbergsches-Grenadier-Regiment Graf Gneisenau (2. Pommersches) Nr.9. The man with the shoulder tabs seems to have a dull-metal NCO collar badge, which I think is a gefreiter.

Got to dash now - a group visit to the joys of Sinan's architrecture calls...

[shippingsteel]

Chris, re post #27, image shows a member of a Landsturm unit (8th Armee Korps) ... ie. unit VIII.5 is the 2.Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Andernach

Also in the same post, I believe the portrait shows a member of a Mounted Regiment (ie. breeches and spurs) in Feldgrau uniform with White capband.

So being a Prussian unit & wearing the Swedish cuffs, I think the unit should be the Dragoner-Regt. König Karl I von Rumänien (1.Hannoversches) Nr.9

Cheers, S>S

[bob lembke]

Hi;

I just saw this at 3:28 AM, so I cannot spend much time at this moment. I also have to observe that I have been away from this stuff for a couple of years, so everything is "rusty",

my self-taught German, the old handwriting systems, uniforms, etc. (Below, the Forum writing engine is not allowing me to use italics for German terms.)

The photo in post # 16 almost certainly is of a Landsturm unit. The usual progression thru the unit gradations, in peacetime, was induction in the Fall of one's 20th year, (usually)

two years' active duty (three years in the artillery), then in the Reserves, at two levels (Bans?) till about 28, then in the Landwehr till about 35, and then service in the Landsturm

till about 45. In the different reserve levels the frequency of active duty for training steadily decreased. During the war this scheme was distorted, and soldiers were inducted at

earlier ages than 20. In 1915 my father was inducted at 19 1/2; he may have volunteered so as to get in the Pioniere, instead of the infantry. I have a long fascinating correspondence

between my father and his father, a staff officer in Russia, on how to manage that process.

The Landsturm was famous from the Napoleonic Wars, but I know little of it, and the uniform is roughly from that period.

If a man was somewhat disabled, during the war, he might not be discharged, but slipped further down the sequence. In my collection I have an interesting Militarpass from a soldier

who was in a regular unit of the Prussian Guard, but in France it was found that he had a heart defect, and he was transferred from the regular Guards unit into the Landwehr, with men

about 29 to 35, although he was only about 22. Men were grouped as to their ability to march; a man with a heart defect probably could not keep up marching with the elite unit.

The Landsturm men seem about 40, there seem to be several senior NCOs in the middle front, one of whom seems to be about 60. I am weak on uniforms and indications of rank, but I

think that there are no commissioned officers. Two younger men are wearing the white fatigue uniform and may not actually be from the unit, but attached to it for some reason.

Bob Lembke

[shippingsteel]

The second one in particular looks much older - he might be armed with a Dreyse needle gun - perhaps making the picture MUCH earlier?

Re post #33, you are correct Chris ... the photo on the right shows the Zündnadelgewehr Modell 1862, together with its socket bayonet - so yes a little earlier.!

In regard to post #12 (and #26 & #38) what appears to be a Prussian Kokarden shows the 'Landwehr cross', so more likely the Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.9

Cheers, S>S

[trajan]

In regard to post #12 (and #26 & #38) what appears to be a Prussian Kokarden shows the 'Landwehr cross', so more likely the Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.9

Cheers, S>S

I see what you mean - you evidently have better eye sight and more time to study SS!. Those two guys at the front as in post 12 do look as though they have Landwehr crosses on the cockades- but some of the guys at the back look to me to have regular Prussian cockades with black centres...

[trajan]

A quick one as I have to go to dinner with the tour group I am leading. This top one looks to be Landsturm? I am away from home and books and cannot check, but IIRC, the Roman number indicates a Landsturm in an Armee Korps, so 8th AK, and the bottom number is the number of the unit in the corps, and so 5th. And so I guess Landsturm VIII Armee Korps, 5 Landsturm Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillon. The VIII Armee-Korps was centred on Koblenz, but their 5th Landsturm were at Andernach.

Chris, re post #27, image shows a member of a Landsturm unit (8th Armee Korps) ... ie. unit VIII.5 is the 2.Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Andernach

Bit slow on the uptake there SS! And 5 not 2!

[depaor01]

He has one acorn, so IIRC, he is a 'junior' grade marksman.

New info to me. Thanks for that.

Dave

[trajan]

Also in the same post (No. 27), I believe the portrait shows a member of a Mounted Regiment (ie. breeches and spurs) in Feldgrau uniform with White capband.

So being a Prussian unit & wearing the Swedish cuffs, I think the unit should be the Dragoner-Regt. König Karl I von Rumänien (1.Hannoversches) Nr.9

Cheers, S>S

Absolutely spot on - just need to add that aside from spurs etc., that type of belt buckle is a cavalry characteristic - always useful to know when looking at soldiers on foot with rifles as this reveals that they are dismounted cavalry.

[trajan]

Dated 25/12/16 -- 36 (?) shoulder number, collar rank disk signifying....? and medal ribbon with a small cross on.

42.jpg 42detail2.jpg

I'll reproduce the photograph so that we know where we are:

So, Füsilier-Regiment General-Feldmarschall Graf Blumenthal (Magdeburgisches) Nr.36? That looks like a large collar disc so obergefreiter rather than gefreiter? The medal ribbon is for the Iron Cross, but I don't know what grade...

Looks like lots of new replies coming in as people presumably relax after their Sunday lunch in the UK - and in any case, I have to go back to my group in the Suleymaniye...

[depaor01]

First class EK was worn that way when the award itself wasn't being worn. EK ribbon with miniature at front. Without the miniature it would be an EK2.

Dave

[trajan]

First class EK was worn that way when the award itself wasn't being worn. EK ribbon with miniature at front. Without the miniature it would be an EK2.

Dave

Thanks Dave

(Sent my group off with the local guide to the Covered Bazaar, so free-time while I wait for them!)

[trajan]

OK after a few more scans:

Some smaller (these are just are about 5cm by 3cm) more damaged ones (also perhaps older?)

12w.jpg

This chap has a 'Pioneer's' Faschinenmesser of some kind, and IIRC, as those produced after about 1871 had the S71 type handle, then this is an older weapon. Given that the 'German' army and its weapons became pretty well standarised between about 1871-1890 or so, I would guess that the photo is also pre-1871, which would go with the needle gun photograph you show in the same post and that you and SS have already identified. Again, sorry, but far from home, so just working off memory - otherwise I could possibly identify the exact type of Faschinenmesser...

[trajan]

Ok back to that last post, just above (new post instead of editing in case people miss this extra)... Bit of googling indicates that that helmet is a Raupenhelm or 'Crawler' or 'Caterpillar' helmet: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raupenhelm, which says (if I understand it correctly) was worn by the Bavarians only in the period leading up to the death of Ludwig II in 1886. As is usual, always happy to be corrected - but that date ties in with the pre-1871-type Faschinenmesser.

Trajan

PS: Also see: http://pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3531 for what looks an identical example.