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Remembered Today:

MM? - S/Sgt Archibald Laurence Obee


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Hello - I am doing a bit of research for a family friend. Their connection is with

Archibald Laurence Obee, DOB 18 Jul 1886, 1901 Small Arms Ammunition (sic) Staff Sergeant Artificer AOC, Regimental No T447.

His MIC shows he landed in France on 10th Dec 1914. 1914-15 Star, BWM, VM. No annotation for the MM. The family believes he was awarded the MM. I have tried searching the London Gazette to no avail. They are trying to discover the circumstances of his MM. In my limited experience the MM citations rarely if ever provided details in the London Gazette. I am not very familiar with the arcane skills of medal research. Any help pointers would be welcome

1. Was he awarded the MM? Found it. Sep 1918 in the LG. His rank is given as Armt QM Sjt. What does Armt stand for exactly?

2. Are there any details of the circumstances?

3. Failing 2 above, what is the easiest way of finding a list of AOC units in F&F in Dec 1914

4. Would an Armt Staff Sgt be attached to an Infantry Battalions at any stage? I am aware of Armourer Sgt's but I assumed (maybe wrongly) these were infantrymen trained as Armourers....

Thank in advance.MG

Edited .

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Martin

" 2. Are there any details of the circumstances?"

Like every other MM, you need to look at local papers or service records. The citations weren't published in the Gazette.

"3. Failing 2 above, what is the easiest way of finding a list of AOC units in F&F in Dec 1914"

WO 379/16 says that AOC Companies 1 - 8 landed between 10 August and 7 October. 9 is blank and the rest arrived from May 1915 onwards.

The 15 Star roll should show more details.

Glen

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Armourer Sgt ? or some derivative of the word armourer ?


War diaries sometimes give details / dates of MMs

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From the LLT (Rates of Pay):

Army Ordnance Corps

Armament or Armourer-Sergeant-Major 7s 0d

Sergeant-Major 5s 6d

Armament or Armourer-Quartermaster-Sergeant 6s 0d

Staff-Quartermaster-Sergeant 4s 3d

Armourer-Staff-Sergeant (at depot) 2s 6d

Armourer-Staff-Sergeant (not at depot) 4s 6d

Armament-Staff-Sergeant 4s 6d

Staff-Sergeant 4s 0d

Sergeant 2s 7d

Corporal 2s 0d

Private 1s 2d

Mike

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Quote, "1. Was he awarded the MM? Found it. Sep 1918 in the LG. His rank is given as Armt QM Sjt. What does Armt stand for exactly?"

At that time his rank was officially WO Class II. HIs appointment was Armament quartermaster-serjeant.

Kevin

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All - many thanks for the info. Greatly appreciated. Does anyone know if a man in such a position would be with an AOC unit (my assumption) or attached to an infantry battalion or brigade?

Apparently he started with 48th Ordnance Mobile Workshop in 1914. I suspect without his service record it will be very difficult to trace him to any specific unit in 1918. MG

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Unless I am mistaken (quite likely) the units came under Corps level. I believe during the war they were divided into light, medium and heavy workshops which naturally limited what repairs the workshop could do, from small arms (and the smallest instruments) up to the heavy artillery. Unless you are going to Kew the only likely diaries available on line are the Australian and Canadian ones, but given a few minutes reading you may learn the type of things they did. The very few I have read I found interesting. If the link works you could have a look at the Canadian ones at http://data4.collectionscanada.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s1=ordnance+Workshop&s13=&s12=&l=20&s9=RG9&s7=9-52&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect2=THESOFF&Sect4=AND&Sect5=WARDPEN&Sect6=HITOFF&d=FIND&p=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.collectionscanada.gc.ca%2Farchivianet%2F02015202_e.html&r=0&f=S . I don't think the British ones were that much different. Some photos at Kew of workshops http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=ordnance%20workshop&items_per_page=10&f[0]=contentDate%3AFirst%20World%20War&f[1]=mediaType%3Aimage .

Kevin

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Many armourers were attached to other units but some were in a depot/workshop role for the repairs that couldn't be handed at the front - almost impossible to tell if a man was attached to a unit or not in my experience.

Craog

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Surely the 48th Ordnance Mobile Workshop reference is in connection with his MM in 1918. His MIC for his 3 campaign medals does not mention it, therefore he was with the 48th OMW during 1918.

Kevin

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Surely the 48th Ordnance Mobile Workshop reference is in connection with his MM in 1918. His MIC for his 3 campaign medals does not mention it, therefore he was with the 48th OMW during 1918.

Kevin

Kevin - I am not sure I follow the logic. The info on the 48th Ordnance Mobile Workshop came from the family. They do not know when he served in this unit. One thing we do know about the Geat war is that lots of men served in many different units. Given he was in a Corps, the chances of him moving about would be greater. Is there anything that would tell us he was serving in this unit when he was awarded the MM? The citation makes no mention. MG

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I am presuming you have already looked at his MICs and possibly looked at the medal rolls. The one for his MM would indicate, to me at least, that there was a good chance he was either posted/attached to the 48th OMW at that time. Perhaps looking at other mens service records of similar ranks and numbers prefixed by a "T" may also give you some idea of the type of units he may have served with. I have only looked at a few I am afraid.

Obviously you are far better qualified than me to say " one thing we do know about the Geat war is that lots of men served in many different units" for those ranks of men of Staff Serjeant to Quartermaster Serjeant of the RAOC, as I have only lightly delved in this research area.

"Given he was in a Corps, the chances of him moving about would be greater." On promotion possibly, but I will accept you obviously know much more than me and leave it at that.

Good luck with your research.

Kevin

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I have looked at

1. London Gazette citation (10 Sep 1918), - only mentions AOC

2. Medal Roll - ditto

3. MIC with his 1914-15 Star, BWM and VM - ditto (and RAOC)

None mention a specific unit. I have searched Ancestry using Obee only (exact) and 56 names come up with only one relating to him the MIC with the Star and BWM and VM. If there is a separate MIC specifically for his MM I would be interested to understand what unit is mentioned as I have not been able to find it. I must be missing something. MG

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