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Remembered Today:

Hoping to find out more about my Great Grandfather and his brothers -


Curiousme
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Hello! I posted this topic in another section but think I may have posted in the wrong place.

Any further information greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Hello all,

I am new to the forum - hopefully I'm posting in the right place? I am trying to find out some further information about my great grandfather's (and his brother's) service during the war.

I have obtained their regiment numbers from the absent voters list as follows:

Leonard James Leaver (my gggf) - 34036, Royal Field Artillery

Charles Stephen Leaver - 33945, Driver, Royal Field Artillery

John Edward Leaver - 394885, Pte, Queens

I have found records in the medal index relating to Leonard and John. These add an "L/" prefix before Leonard's and Charles' regiment numbers. They also state Leonard was a Driver. I believe they were both awarded the Victory and or British medals.

Can anyone tell me more about which exact regiment Leonard and Charles belonged to? Is the L/ prefix significant? Were they likely to have fought together? Is there a way to find out which battles they fought in?

I cannot find a medal index record for John Edward Leaver with a reg. number that matches the reg. number in the absent voters list. I can find John Edward Leaver as follows, "1660. Pte. 8th R.W Surr. R" and an index card which also mentions Queen's (as per absent voters) R York and Lancaster with the same 1660 number and two other reg. numbers (52728 and 4736661) but not the number that appears on the absent voters list? Is this is the same person?

I have a photo of my gggf in uniform with two men and I am guessing they are his brothers Charles and John. I would also like to work out from the photo which is Charles and which is John. Is this possible from looking at the uniforms they are wearing?

Any advice much very appreciated.

Look forward to hearing from you!

Thanks

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Do you know if John Leaver served into 1920? If he did the info with the 3 service numbers would be correct man. The seven digit number would have been issued sometime in 1920.

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John Edward Leaver - 394885, Pte, Queens

The 6 digit number reads like a post 1917 Territorial number, however it's not from a block allocated to the Queen's.

Sam

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Hello curiousme, and welcome to the Forum!

The L prefix denotes a wartime local enlistment. Because Leonard and Charles had numbers so close together, it is quite likely that they served in the same battery or at any rate in the same RFA brigade (equivalent to a battalion in an infantry regiment. I'm afraid I cannot help you to identify the brigade or battery, but there are folks on the Forum who may be able to do so. I assume there is no "date entered theatre" on their medal index cards, which might help to narrow the search down a bit, but as they only got two medals each it looks as if they did not go abroad until after December 1915.

John's regiment is the Queen's Royal West Surrey Regiment, and if that appears on his medals themselves, or is listed first on the index card, then that is the regiment with which he went abroad. He may have been transferred later to the York and Lancaster Regiment, in which case he would have been given a fresh number an d this was probably the 52728 you mention.

Ron

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The 6 digit number reads like a post 1917 Territorial number, however it's not from a block allocated to the Queen's.

Sam

Might it be for a battalion of the London Regiment which was affiliated to the Queens?

Ron

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Might it be for a battalion of the London Regiment which was affiliated to the Queens?

Ron

22nd (680001 - 700000) and 24th (720001 - 740000) Londons were affiliated to the Queen's, the 9th Londons were allocated the block 394884 was in and they were affiliated to the KRRC.

Sam

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Can anyone tell me more about which exact regiment Leonard and Charles belonged to?

They served with the Royal Field Artillery as you've established, not an infantry regiment. The medal rolls at the National Archives (and now on Ancestry) do not usually list the precise unit with which they served (unlikethe rolls for the infantry). As such, and unless their service files survived the fire in the 1940s, it's now most unlikely that you'll be able to estabish the unit and then access its war diary (also at the National Archives).

This link will tell you much more about how to research a soldier and will also help explain some of the jargon that gets used on forum threads that usually has newcomers scratching their heads. http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/research.html

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My goodness! Thank you johnboy, Ron, Sam and John for the information - fantastic! The brothers were all London based. I'm not sure if John served after 1920 - I'll see if I can find out. I'll check the medal cards again and see if there are any dates. I'll check out the guide for newcomers too - thank you!

How exciting! Thanks all.

Lizi

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It may be too late to give you the standard health warning:

Great War research is addictive and can seriously reduce the amount of your spare time.

:lol:

Ron

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Hi Johnboy, I know from census records he was born c.1893. Not sure of exact date of birth unfortunately.

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A long shot.

Age about right

Place of birth right

Maybe he wanted to be a career soldier?

He would probably have enlisted into the regular army in 1912. He got discharged in 1913 for misconduct and seems he spent the short time in UK. When the war began he got another chance and maybe enlisted into regular army as opposed to being conscripted. His seven digit number shows he was still serving in at least 1920.

post-99311-0-70566500-1418837905_thumb.j

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Hi Johnboy - thanks so much for this - I think you're spot on there. I've now got a copy of the full record from ancestry and I am sure it relates to my Charles.The next of kin names, James (Father), Albert, Jack and Leonard (Brothers) match other records I have and information given to me by my grandfather. I'm going to see what other details I can extract from the record and see what else matches up but I think it is highly likely it is the same Charles - just brilliant and absolutely fascinating - thank you so much! Lizi

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In answer to your unanswered question it should be possible to identify which Regiment John was serving in from the cap badge if that is shown on the photograph. As a Driver Charles should be wearing a white lanyard with his uniform. The cap badge may help identify the Regiment John was in when the photograph was taken (if they are wearing their caps). John probably was in a Home Service Bn of the Queens hence no mic. There are many potential mistakes on the AVL see this thread http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=210384&hl=%2Babsent+%2Bvoters+%2Bcards#entry2076558

He may have been renumbered and transferred during one of the reorganisations of the Home Service Bns later in the war. The number could be a Labour Corps number. As Labour Battalions of the Queens transferred to the Labour Corps as a unit it may have been a distinction lost on those completing the information for the AVL. Looking at similar numbers in the LC dates it to around September 1917.

John E Leaver was a Private in the Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment, his number was 1660. He first went overseas to France with the main body of the 8th Battalion Queen's on the 31st August 1915.

He transferred to the York and Lancaster and was allocated the number 52728

When the war ended he remained with the York and Lancaster and was allocated the Regular Army number 4736661 in a series which began 4736001. While serving with this Regiment he was awarded the General Service Medal with the Iraq and North West Persia Clasp. In the absence of a service record it's difficult to say when he transferred all we can say with certainty he was with them in May 1920 (when his 14-15 Star was issued). My interest is the Queen's I'll have a go at finding the Yorks and Lancs transfer later if I have time, or perhaps someone with more knowledge can help. When the GSM was issued in 1924 he was living in Colliers Wood but I don't think he is your man.

Ken

EDIT Looks like the York and Lancaster number dates from around June/July 1919 which means he would still be in the Queens when the AVL compiled

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