Lancers ? - Identify Picture Please

[johnboy]

chimneys look similar 

Edited 4 October , 2017 by johnboy

[Guest]

1 hour ago, John reavey said:

Thanks for getting back. I'm sure it's the 21sts because the booklet comes from an ancestor who served 21 years with them. He was one of their detachment who tried to extracate General Gordon from Khartoum in the 1880's. I have no idea where this photo was taken but  all of them look to be from the same place. Ive enclosed the front of the booklet. The date comes from '21st lancers 1906'  being scrawled on some anvils on a photo of the blacksmiths.

Cheers 

 

looks like 1908 then. 

 

1906 Houslow

1907 Hounslow

1908  Aldershot

1909 Canterbury

1910 Canterbury

1911 Egypt

1912 Egypt - Abassia

1913 Rawapindi

1913 Rawalpindi

1914 Rawalpindi

[Guest]

The bible on Military Barrack architecture in the UK is  "British Barracks 1600-1914" by James Douet.

 

Page 132 has a finely drawn plan of the Barracks complex at Aldershot showing the original buildings (built between 1854-1859)and the little that is left today. There were three Cavalry Barracks: Willens, Warburg and Beaumont. The only part left today of the Cavalry Barracks is the Riding School at Beaumont Cavalry Barracks.

[Steven Broomfield]

26 minutes ago, QGE said:

 There were three Cavalry Barracks: Willens, Warburg and Beaumont.

 

Three great cavalry actions. All three appeared on the Guidon of the 11th Hussars (as Martin will know), and therefore of the Royal Hussars and now that of the King's Royal Hussars (although it's Willems, of course - typo).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

Three great cavalry actions. All three appeared on the Guidon of the 11th Hussars (as Martin will know), and therefore of the Royal Hussars and now that of the King's Royal Hussars (although it's Willems, of course - typo).

 

Thamk you for the corrective.

 

An aside:

I understand the 11th Hussars at amalgamation had more battle honours than any other cavalry Regiment in the British Army. Being in the wrong cherry orchard at the wrong time seemed to have been an endemic problem over the years. Incidentally I was at the presentation of the last Guidon to the 11th Hussars and the old man was on parade that day. The Grenadier Guards sent a drill instructor to sharpen-up the cavalry's rather slack drill ahead of the parade. When the old man was shouted at by said drill instructor to close his fingers, he allegedly shouted back: "I cant I am one diffy". having lost a finger in Aden. There is a YouTube film of the grand occasion and a bad painting by Cuneo. Incidentally the old man is apoplectic about some recent TV drama on Aden. 

 

On topic, I see the Twenty-Worst Dancers only had one battle honour ahead of the Great War.  Khartoum. A great film ao f a poor battle.  the Royal Engineers dying hard. Here is a suitably LGBT member of the British Army and Royal Engineers who was in charge that day. The BBC would be ecstatic.  

 

An exceptionally fine statue in frot of the RE Institute

 

Edited 4 October , 2017 by Guest

[Muerrisch]

On 12/16/2014 at 20:34, chris1914 said:

Can anyone identify regiment in this photo for me please. May be WW1 or earlier? It is somehow connected to my Great Grandfather Henry Leonard Billingham (Regimental number W2020) who was in RH & R Field Artillery in WW1. He was from Gloucester born about 1877. Thanks.

 

An illustration of the high marksmanship standards of the cavalry in general: swarms of marksman badges.

Also in wear [and not very often seen] is the lance skill-at=arms badge.

[Guest]

Here is the full fat version of the OP picture.

 

 

[Steven Broomfield]

I still say it's one of the finest pictures ever posted on the Forum.

[Steven Broomfield]

22 hours ago, QGE said:

 

Thamk you for the corrective.

 

 

On topic, I see the Twenty-Worst Dancers only had one battle honour ahead of the Great War.  Khartoum.

 

 

 

The Honour was Omdurman (not sure if you meant Khartoum or were talking about the movie). Shame for the regiment: I'm sure the 3rd Bengal European Light Cavalry must have had some Honours, had they been allowed to bring them across (did the 19th and 20th Hussars have similar problems?).

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

The Honour was Omdurman (not sure if you meant Khartoum or were talking about the movie). Shame for the regiment: I'm sure the 3rd Bengal European Light Cavalry must have had some Honours, had they been allowed to bring them across (did the 19th and 20th Hussars have similar problems?).

 

I hope you don't mind me pointing out that the honour is "Khartoum" according to the Army List.

 

 

Also list in the Army List headings....

 

19th Hussars: 

The Elephant superscribed "Assaye"

Mysore

Seringapatam

Niagara

Tel el Kebir

Egypt 1882-1884

Abu Klea

Nile 1884-85

Defence of Ladysmith

South Africa 1899-1902

 

20th Hussars

Vimiera

Peninsula

Suakin 1885

South Africa 1901-02

Edited 5 October , 2017 by Guest

[Steven Broomfield]

46 minutes ago, QGE said:

 

I hope you don't mind me pointing out that the honour is "Khartoum" according to the Army List.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks - I really (obviously) didn't know that. I wonder what was on the Drum Banner. I assume the current regiment carry the Honour.

Actually, your list there is fascinating: the 20th certainly look to have carried Honours won by previously-disbanded regiments and the 19th could be either from HEIC regiments or previous British incarnations.

 

Poor old 21st.

[Guest]

On 06/10/2017 at 01:41, Steven Broomfield said:

 

Thanks - I really (obviously) didn't know that. I wonder what was on the Drum Banner. I assume the current regiment carry the Honour.

Actually, your list there is fascinating: the 20th certainly look to have carried Honours won by previously-disbanded regiments and the 19th could be either from HEIC regiments or previous British incarnations.

 

Poor old 21st.

Edit. The clue was in Post#25...Khartoum is scrolled over the lances in the Regimental badge...

 

In the 1960s the Military Historical Bulletin ran a 16 part series on "Mounted Bands, Their Drum Horses and Banners". The author (R G Harris) managed to gather them into one bundle and bind them into a small book which I have....lots of B&W photos (around 50) including...roll of drums...the XI Hussars kettle-drummer on his horse with a white busby. 

 

To answer your question; It looks as if the banners were not updated before the regiment amalgamated with the 17th lancers. Here is the 21st Lancers' Drum Horse in 1906, 1900 and 1896 (when still Hussars)

 

 

 

 

 

[Steven Broomfield]

Thanks for that.

[IRC Kevin]

On 06/10/2017 at 00:53, QGE said:

 

I hope you don't mind me pointing out that the honour is "Khartoum" according to the Army List.

 

Guest is quite correct in stating it as 'Khartoum', although as Steven wrote, it was awarded for Omdurman. That and 'North-West Frontier, India, 1915, 1916' were their only battle honours prior to amalgamation, leading to the rather unkind comment from their brothers in the 17th, that their regimental motto had been, 'Thou shalt not kill.' The squadron in France was a supernumerary one, raised in Tidworth in early 1916, mainly from reservists, and served with 14 Corps Cavalry until August 1917, when they were disbanded, the manpower distributed among infantry regiments.