Justinth Posted 21 April , 2017 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2017 (edited) It is from the same source. Now fingers crossed they can get on with releasing more service records as was suggested by the MoD review last year. Best Justin Edited 21 April , 2017 by Justinth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 22 April , 2017 Share Posted 22 April , 2017 Thanks Justin for confirming. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 9 August , 2017 Share Posted 9 August , 2017 (edited) The pre 1901 birthdate files held by the MoD are listed on Ancestry, as already noted. But access to them is typically complicated by Ancestry. I was tempted to include it in the 'Worst Indexing' thread. If you only look at Ancestry's Content - UK and Ireland you will not find them. If you have access to all of ancestry content, you will find them. So where do they lurk? I went through each country one at a time , including United States, who seem to have been the source of the transcript, but nothing. However clicking on Ethnicity then African American, or Jewish American or Native American, there they are! Bizarre. Or is it just me?? Edit...and I find it too difficult to work out how to tell Ancestry about this. Can a smarter person (if such exists) please tell them? charlie Edited 9 August , 2017 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 9 August , 2017 Share Posted 9 August , 2017 Sounds related to this Ancestry issue, no sign of battalion diaries for me the other day then they re-appear. Quote Edit...and I find it too difficult to work out how to tell Ancestry about this I've tried telling them things and never seen any change. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 9 August , 2017 Share Posted 9 August , 2017 11 hours ago, charlie962 said: The pre 1901 birthdate files held by the MoD are listed on Ancestry, as already noted. But access to them is typically complicated by Ancestry. I was tempted to include it in the 'Worst Indexing' thread. The database title has changed from "UK, Military Indexes, 1920-1971" (post 150) to UK, Military Discharge Indexes, 1920-1971, located in the category Military I searched the database card catalogue separately for UK, then Military, then Discharge, then Indexes and the only one which gave a positive search result was Discharge. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=61448 (same as post 150) Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 To get a copy of the service file from the MoD, have I really got to provide the death certificate of my grandfather born 119 years ago? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 18 minutes ago, charlie962 said: To get a copy of the service file from the MoD, have I really got to provide the death certificate of my grandfather born 119 years ago? Charlie From the supporting blurb: Subject to the payment of an administration fee and provision of a death certificate (except where death was in service), certain information can be provided from the records of service of service personnel on request under the publication scheme. so I'm afraid so. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 Thanks Charlie, it was the blurb and application forms I was reading. I had hoped there was a dispensation granted in a moment of sanity but I clearly live in another world. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 This archived information page says the requirement about proof of death may be waived when the date of birth of the individual was more than 116 years ago, so it would be worth enquiring. http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20091204154014/http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/service_records/army_pack.pdf Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 4 October , 2017 Share Posted 4 October , 2017 3 minutes ago, Maureene said: may be waived when the date of birth of the individual was more than 116 years ago Maureen, have a gold star. My faith in bureaucrats having brief moments of sanity is restored. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTracer44 Posted 5 October , 2017 Share Posted 5 October , 2017 9 hours ago, Maureene said: This archived information page says the requirement about proof of death may be waived when the date of birth of the individual was more than 116 years ago, so it would be worth enquiring. http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20091204154014/http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/service_records/army_pack.pdf Cheers Maureen Just been looking through the info on the link Maureen posted and below the page of Army contact numbers in red is a reference to [WW1 service records on the Mormons site The Latter Day Saints], does anybody know which records these are! Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 5 October , 2017 Share Posted 5 October , 2017 Charlie, The word "may" does not mean they will. Good luck Charlie2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie56 Posted 5 October , 2017 Share Posted 5 October , 2017 Trying to find out about a relative from another topic I was given a link to this topic. My relative served overseas in both ww1 and ww2 and was born 1898. So I searched the files and his name does not appear. I checked for incorrect spelling and still no luck. I checked against dob and not one reference. Finally I checked for the year only of his birth and came up with 65 names but not his. I noticed that most, if not all, of those 65 names began with a W or a Y. Is this an example of "weeding" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 5 October , 2017 Share Posted 5 October , 2017 2 hours ago, TTracer44 said: Just been looking through the info on the link Maureen posted and below the page of Army contact numbers in red is a reference to [WW1 service records on the Mormons site The Latter Day Saints], does anybody know which records these are! Den The FamilySearch (Mormon site} catalogue has many references to records which are filmed National Archives records including https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2125045 United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920 It contains records from two publications in the National Archives: WO 363 (War Office: Soldiers' Documents, First World War "Burnt Documents") and WO 364 (War Office: Documents from Pension Claims, First World War). These records are digitised microfilms. However, when you click through to view the images, the message is " To view these images you must do one of the following: Sign in to Familysearch.org as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Access the site at a family history center. Access the site at a FamilySearch affiliate library. If you have to go to a Family History Centre, you would be better off viewing the records on Ancestry or findmypast which are available at the Centres. Even if you were a church member, viewing the digitised microfilms may not be easy unless you have a high speed internet connection, and the microfilm images are not searchable the way Ancestry or findmypast are. I have been having great trouble with some FamilySearch records unrelated to WW1 which are available on home computers. The opinion was that this was related to internet speed, even though I live in the suburbs of a major city in Australia I don't think the records above are a realistic alternative. The catalogue search is https://www.familysearch.org/catalog/search. Perhaps there are some WW1 records to be found which would be useful. Regarding the files held by the Ministry of Defence, I understand there has been weeding, so a file is not held for everyone you might expect to be there. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart T Posted 7 October , 2017 Share Posted 7 October , 2017 On 04/10/2017 at 22:02, Maureene said: This archived information page says the requirement about proof of death may be waived when the date of birth of the individual was more than 116 years ago, so it would be worth enquiring. http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20091204154014/http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/service_records/army_pack.pdf Cheers Maureen Maureene, In general terms, how would you know to go and search the TNA archive for something that has (invisibly) changed on the original .gov page? I note that the 116 year rule no longer appears on the current page, so is it likely to be current or has it been abolished or superceded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart T Posted 7 October , 2017 Share Posted 7 October , 2017 On 02/04/2016 at 08:57, busterfield said: Hello from someone new to the site and struggling a bit. I've done the gov.uk MOD collation summary and cannot find anything regarding pre 1901 DoB. Is there a link for this dummy to go to. Justin, I think you have misunderstood busterfield's comment. In the FOI letter, it says 'A description of the relevant accounts can also be found on .gov.uk using “MOD collation summary” as a search term'. In other words, you can find out the meaning of column A in the spreadsheets. I too have searched and been unable to find what should be there. This is quite separate to finding the eight files and collating them. The splits do seem to be for the 65536 limit because the Account codes run numerically throughout the eight sheets. Also the prefix in "Item Code" (column B ) seems to change every time the Account changes, although I have not checked them all. I have noted that the sheets all cover dobs 1864 to 1900 (except sheet 3 - 1865 and sheet 6 - 1868). The Accounts listed per sheet are as follows. Perhaps they relate to something in another column, eg officers (as suggested above) or regiments. Sheet 1 - a/c 11001 Sheet 2 - a/c 11001, 02, 04 (just six entries), 05 Sheet 3 - a/c 11005 Sheet 4 - a/c 11005 Sheet 5 - a/c 11005, 06 Sheet 6 - a/c 11006 Sheet 7 - a/c 11006 to 13001 (eight different) Sheet 8 - a/c 13001 to 15026 (ten different). Obviously, some accounts are bigger than others and would Sheets 7 and 8, being almost "miscellaneous" relate to regimental order of precedence or something? It would be really nice if the Collation Summary were actually where it is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 7 October , 2017 Share Posted 7 October , 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Stuart T said: Maureene, In general terms, how would you know to go and search the TNA archive for something that has (invisibly) changed on the original .gov page? I note that the 116 year rule no longer appears on the current page, so is it likely to be current or has it been abolished or superceded? Stuart, I don't know if the 116 year rule still applies. However, I think it is worth enquiring whether it does, or proceeding as though it does, by saying with the MOD application that a death certificate is not enclosed, as the birth occurred more than 116 years ago. The URL I quoted was originally from www.veterans-uk.info. I had this saved. I don't know where I found it originally. Cheers Maureen Edit: replaced incorrect word. Edited 7 October , 2017 by Maureene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart T Posted 7 October , 2017 Share Posted 7 October , 2017 Thanks, Maureen. I presume you mean "birth was more than 116 years ago". Has anyone else ever been tipped off to use the web archive relating to a current .gov page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 7 October , 2017 Share Posted 7 October , 2017 3 hours ago, Stuart T said: I presume you mean "birth was more than 116 years ago". Yes, sorry for the error. I have now edited post 167. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 8 October , 2017 Share Posted 8 October , 2017 21 hours ago, Stuart T said: In other words, you can find out the meaning of column A in the spreadsheets. I too have searched and been unable to find what should be there. If you put the following into Google it should lead you to another spreadsheet with the Account number details. 20141104-MOD_Main_archive_dataset_O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart T Posted 8 October , 2017 Share Posted 8 October , 2017 (edited) David - brilliant. That's what we need. Thanks. PS re A/c code 1002, what on earth is WAMI? Edited 8 October , 2017 by Stuart T PS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 8 October , 2017 Share Posted 8 October , 2017 Excellent, David. You'vemay have just provide the answer to my post 138. Don't know how you did it but thanks. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart T Posted 9 October , 2017 Share Posted 9 October , 2017 (edited) I have just noticed that a/c 11004 which has only a handful of entries is in fact one of the biggest accounts in total (over 1 million). Charlie - are you affected by WAMI? Edited 9 October , 2017 by Stuart T checked data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylov Posted 15 October , 2017 Share Posted 15 October , 2017 On 10/4/2017 at 22:02, Maureene said: This archived information page says the requirement about proof of death may be waived when the date of birth of the individual was more than 116 years ago, so it would be worth enquiring. http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20091204154014/http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/service_records/army_pack.pdf Cheers Maureen I've used the MOD index to obtain many sets of service records for soldiers whose medals are in my collection. As long as I have a date of birth and state that in the covering letter, they seem happy. In nearly 20 cases I've never once been asked for proof. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Bryce Posted 10 June , 2018 Share Posted 10 June , 2018 Hi, Came across this on ancestry.ca under UK, Military Discharge Indexes 1920-1971 when searching for my father's service number. Name: W. Bryce Birth Date: 21 April 1895 Service Number: 1467147 Rank: Army Other ranks, Discharges for 1921-1971 Additional Regiment: Royal Artillery Reference Number: ADT000068048 Household Members: 131801 My father, William Bryce, was born 21 April 1895, was in the Royal Engineers in WW1, He told me he acted as a calvaryman, a sniper, a signalman, and a motorcycle despatch rider. I have a photo of him on horseback with rifle & a crookstick (used for checking for breaks in communication lines). Is the same surname, initial, & birth date too much of a coincidence? Could Royal Artillery be a clerical mistake? I guess it's possible that he could have served in both the RE & the RA but the latter has never been mentioned in our family history. Also, I've never come across a 7 digit service number! Any thoughts? Thanks for any help or suggestions! Bill Bryce PS What are Household Members above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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