Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Medals of David M Brown RE Inland Water and Transport


dgibson150
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have just discovered that my grandfather, Sergeant D M Brown was eligible for service and victory medals. Nobody in the surviving family knows about them. Can I assume that, if there are no remarks or indication of return on the Mic and the Medal Rolls, the medals were issued and they are either lost, stolen or we (the family) have them somewhere, but haven't found them yet?

David.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

I think that's a fair assumption.

Although both my grandfathers served I've no idea what happened to their medals, or any other close family member. You can try posting on the British Medals Forum but it's a bit of a longshot as millions were issued. Replicas are available but I've no knowledge as to quality although it has been mentioned by some of the collectors on this forum.

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite a few men threw away their medals in disgust, so perhaps that may have ed happened in this case.

Other ranks did not have to claim their medals: they were sent to them at the last known address in the Army's records. If neither the medal roll nor the MIC mentions their return, it is a fair assumption that they were delivered.

Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My late aunt was sure that her father's, my grandfather's medals were somewhere in the family house and had promised them to me. They weren't there. Unfortunately that branch of the family was notorious for throwing stuff away. I suspect that some time in the distant future they will turn up in an excavation of a landfill site.

Very sad.

R.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks for the speedy feedback.

There is a chance that they are at my mother's. She is 94 now so it is possible that she has completely forgotten about them.

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

I have since this post found my grandfather's service and victory medals, at my mothers. Also unexpectedly a Mercantile Marine War Medal.

 

My sister phoned me about two hours ago, saying that she had found another medal (we are clearing the house), which turned out to be a 14-15 Star.

 

David M Brown's MIC indicates no date of entry into a theatre of war, implying no 14-15 star. Is a discrepancy of this type unusual?

 

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, dgibson150 said:

I have since this post found my grandfather's service and victory medals, at my mothers. Also unexpectedly a Mercantile Marine War Medal.

 

My sister phoned me about two hours ago, saying that she had found another medal (we are clearing the house), which turned out to be a 14-15 Star.

 

David M Brown's MIC indicates no date of entry into a theatre of war, implying no 14-15 star. Is a discrepancy of this type unusual?

 

David

 

 

This may be a stupid question, but are all 4 medals named to the same bloke?

 

 

Regards,

Mike

Edited by Medaler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, dgibson150 said:

I'm not sure of the implications of your query Mike, but yes, they are all to th same person.

 

David

 No great shakes, just odd for a Mercantile Marine medal to be issued to an RE Sergeant. Points to either pre enlistment service with the Merchant Fleet or being invalided out of the army and joining them later. You also say that there is no 14-15 Star on the MIC, and yet you have found one. That would imply that a separate MIC might exist for the Star. It would be interesting to know the details of the naming on each medal. I did think you might have stumbled on medals belonging to 2 or 3 different members of the family, but your answer would suggest otherwise.

 

Cheers,

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

As we don't have the service numbers on the medals can't be certain but there was a 14-15 Star awarded to L/Cpl 49471 D. M. Brown RE.  Soldiers in IWT were later renumbered wi six digit number.  This soldier was discharged 392 KR (xvi) 2/11/1917.

 

Ken 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re post #9

My grandfather was a marine engineer who had served in the merchant fleet prior to joining the RE, so the Merchant Navy/RE link is not surprising. He served for the Inland Water and Transport, service number 88555. I can't find another MIC to support the 1914-15 Star. The only MIC I can find is for the victory and campaign medals, yet a 14/15 star has surfaced.

 

kenf48, thanks for the suggestion but your suggested candidate doesn't match.

 

David

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There seem to be 2 MIC's at the National Archives for an 88555 Brown. One for David M. and the other for a rather oddly styled D Mc C. Both also give the service number WR/311686, so it would seem to be the same chap.

 

Thanks for establishing the Merchant Marine connection for me. I was very curious about that. Whilst not unique, its a very unusual group you have there - Pip, Squeak, Wilfred and (perhaps) Jack !

 

Cheers,

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is not too uncommon to see 2 MICs for the same man due to spelling errors or such. Usually 1 for a Star & the other for the BWM & Victy .  Sometimes just 1 letter off in the spelling can generate such a situation. Nice grp in any case & glad you found them to keep & treasure. Good luck on future research as there could be interesting stories of his sea service as well as land service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Medaler said:

There seem to be 2 MIC's at the National Archives for an 88555 Brown. One for David M. and the other for a rather oddly styled D Mc C. Both also give the service number WR/311686, so it would seem to be the same chap.

 

Thanks for establishing the Merchant Marine connection for me. I was very curious about that. Whilst not unique, its a very unusual group you have there - Pip, Squeak, Wilfred and (perhaps) Jack !

 

Cheers,

Mike

 

The 14-15 Star MIC seems to be his, also shows a SWB ref which if checked should confirm it's him

 

Sam

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all for the help. My problem was that Ancestry's search engine doesn't seem to know how to treat the Mc C forename, so I was missing this record which shows he entered the theatre of war in 1915. Mc C is short for McCutcheon. On the SWB record he is shown as David McCutcheon Brown in full, and was discharged on 14/12/18 under para 392(xxva), sickness.

 

The SWB record is odd because as far as I know he was perfectly healthy. In late 1918 he was transferred from serving on the canals in France to  Rankine & Blackmore Engineers Greenock, being employed as a leading fitter in the engine shop and in the fitting out basin. This was under the  Army Reserve Munition Workers Scheme. He was then released from all Army obligations in December 1918 and rejoined the shipping line (Ellerman City Line) that he had worked for prior to enlistment in the RE.

 

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
6 hours ago, dgibson150 said:

On the SWB record he is shown as David McCutcheon Brown in full, and was discharged on 14/12/18 under para 392(xxva), sickness.

 

The SWB record is odd because as far as I know he was perfectly healthy.

 

Unusual, para 392 (xxva) is ' Surplus to Military requirements (not having suffered impairment since entry into the service). ' There are similar entries I wonder if entering 'Sickness'  was a dodge so the SWB wasn't queried.  If they were surplus Military requirements and had suffered impairment that was para 392 (xvia). 

 

Ken

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ken

In his CV, written in 1925, he says that he was released from army obligations by  "War Office ARMV decree". I have no idea what "ARMV" stands for, but it may be the key to the entry in the SWB register.

 

David

 

Edit 

Maybe ARMV has a typo in it. Unfortunately I can't check the original until I next go to England.

Edited by dgibson150
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...