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23rd London cap badge


bootneck

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On the internet you find many examples of the 23rd Battalion, the London Regiment, cap badge; however, they always seem toshow the East Surrey cap badge. Even Arthur L Kipling & Hugh L Kings book Head-Dress Badges of the British Army, volume 1: Up to the end of the Great War also only shows this badge. However, on the following page http://www.1914-1918.net/london.htm relating to the London Regiment there is a different badge.

Can anybody confirm whether this was the badge worn by the battalion between 1908 and 1916?

many thanks in advance.

Bootneck

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Kipling & King p.444 for the 23rd County of London battalion "An eight pointed star, the topmost point displaced by an Imperial Crown. On this a circlet inscribed South Africa 1900-2 with, in the centre, a shield bearing the Arms of Guildford. Below the star, a scroll inscribed 23rd Bn.The London Regt. The ground of the shield, the crown and the scroll in gilding metal, remainder in white metal. Officer's: in gilt-and-silver, also in bronze. There was an all -brass economy issue. All versions are found with the date 1900-02 instead of 1900-2. " .

The only badges I have seen are as this description and illustration except that they have 1900-2 as does the illustration in K & K.

Similar to the East Surrey badge but not the same.

As you say though, not remotely like that shown on the LLT headstone photograph.

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That's odd - the badge as you both say was definitely an 8-pointed star with Guildford Castle in the centre, with "South Africa 1900-02" on a scroll beneath.

I wondered about the battalion crest, however? It was apparently An annulet ensigned with a cross pâtée and interlaced with a saltire conjoined in base “ Loyalty unites us ”. I'm not very heraldic, but that suggests some kind of saltire affair with a small ring, and the image does look like that A cross patee is, I think, like a Maltese (or German) cross and there's one atop the whole device.

Pat

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Whatever the regiment chose for the headstone device I should imagine but certainly an interesting subject. I wonder if any other regiments did something similar?

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Don't recall any other 23rd Londons examples off-hand, but then I must have seen that picture on LLT several times before and never remarked on it! I agree it'd be interesting to see if anyone else has found this kind of thing in other regiments - and if there was a specific rationale for it. I'm not aware of any crests for other London Regiment battalions (not an expert at all, mind you), maybe it was just because they could?

Cheers,

Pat

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Bootneck,

23rd London used the Crest on CWGC, but the cap badge was always the 8 pointed Star. You find most of the sweetheart brooches using the 8 pointed star, but occasionally there are a few with the crest. I've found post-war the crest is used more frequently on regimental ephemera such as cigarette cases, lighters, etc. The crest was also used by the Masons' chapter which sprung out of 2/23rd London.

What's your interest in the 23rd in 1908-1916?

Matthew

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Thank you all for your replies.

Matthew, my main interests are the Royal Marines and the East Surrey Regiment, both WW1 & earlier. I am a novice where badges & insignia are concerned.

I was asked about a CWGC headstone with the crest, as described by Pat, and thought it may have been used as the unit's cap badge from 1908 to 1916. If that was the case I assumed I would have found an image of it somewhere. The only example I have seen of both 'badges' is on the front page on a booklet (published in December 1918)outlining the 2/23rd's war history. The crest is at the top of the page and the cap badge at the bottem.

Bootneck

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