90th Siege Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery 1916-1918

[taylov]

The Long Long, Trail states that the 90th Siege Battery arrived in France in mid-June 1916. Thereafter their movements seem to have a bit of an official secret, so rarely do they get mentioned.

The Gommecourt website (www.gommecourt.co.uk/rga.htm) confirms that the 90th S.B fought there on 1st July 1916 as part of 46th HAG, 19th Heavy Artillery Group. Later casualties to the 90th S.B. suggest that they remained on the Somme into the Autumn of 1916.

The next group of references place them at the Battle of Messines in June 1917 but thereafter, silence. I am particuarly keen to know of their locations in 1918. Any indications would be welcome.

Tony

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

At the Armistice, they were a 6 gun 9.2" Howitzer battery, part of 8th Bde RGA, itself part of the First Army.

[petwes]

Tony

Here is the full list of their allocations to Heavy Artillery Groups with dates taken from WO95 / 5494 Allocations of Siege batteries RGA:

Group number Group Type Date Joined Date Left

To Western Front 14/06/1916

19 HAG 19/06/1916 28/07/1916

1 HAG 28/07/1916 07/09/1916

16 HAG 07/09/1916 05/10/1916

56 HAG 05/10/1916 02/12/1916

72 HAG 02/12/1916 20/03/1917

47 HAG 20/03/1917 12/04/1917

10 HAG 12/04/1917 17/05/1917

22 HAG 17/05/1917 20/05/1917

11 HAG 20/05/1917 24/05/1917

49 HAG 24/05/1917 18/06/1917

86 HAG 18/06/1917 04/07/1917

93 HAG 04/07/1917 18/08/1917

17 HAG 18/08/1917 10/09/1917

8 HAG 10/09/1917 30/09/1917

23 HAG 30/09/1917 24/10/1917

14 HAG 24/10/1917 07/11/1917

8 HAG 07/11/1917 21/11/1917

93 HAG 21/11/1917 08/12/1917

8 HAG 08/12/1917 11/11/1918

If the 8th Brigade diary is available it should fill in detail for 1918. WO95 /214?

Peter

[taylov]

Thank you both for the information. Lots to search at NA.

Tony

[davidmbrown]

I have just seen this topic. I have recently been to the NA and photograhed pages from WO95/214 covering the period from July 1918. If there are particular periods of interest it maight be possible to e-mail some of the images.

David

[taylov]

David, thank you for your kind offer.

I have sent you a PM - please ignore any multiple copies of the message - the PM system seems to be playing up when I use IE. Worked fine in Firefox.

Tony

[gdc]

In response to the Disapearance of 90th Siege Battery

My grandfather (a R.G.A signaler) is mentioned in the the ccs records as attending No.4, No.47, No.61

Casualty Clearing Station (also known as North Midland C.C.S) based at Lozinghem on the

3rd Nov 1917 suffering from "Ailment: Gassed Shell ".and then probably sent to 58 General Hospital St Omer

although this is rather vague.

He always maintained this gas was British and his battery was disbanded afterwards

and afterwards people seem to go to the field artillery,

Can anyone enlighten me to the events around the end of October/November 1917 involving 90th Siege

Battery?

[rflory]

While there is no war diary available specifically for 90th Siege Battery, the Liddle Collection at Leeds University Library contains an interview with Sir John Eldridge (who was an officer in 90th Siege Battery during the Great War) that gives some insight to the activities of that battery.

[gdc]

Thanks for the information will look into it further.Any further information

would be greatfully recieved about location of units connected with this

battery or further reading about the events of November 1917

Thanks

[BEARDYCLEM]

Sirs,

I have recently come into posession of a pocket bible from a small family collection of heirlooms - but it poses a bit of a conundrum. The bible is inscribed ( and some bits may be wrong as its difficult to transcribe the script ) as follows:

Dd. E. NEWELL ( Or HOWELL or NOWELL ) 1033560

90th Battery 16Bde ( ?? ) RGA ( or RFA )

Ludd

Palestine

None of these possible surnames have a family connection as far as I can see but my Grandfather Arthur Edward Clement, 26th & 32nd Royal Fusiliers would not have kept it if it didnt have any significance.

My supposition is that the 26th & 32nd RF served on the western front and briefly in Italy and these periods of service may chime with the 90th Battery RGA or RFA. Can anybody help with the sleuthing for either of the units as, as a novice here, I am somewhat confuzzled. If I can make certain of the surname, I may be able to piece something of a family connection together. Any assistance from RFA / RGA or Royal Fusiliers super sleuths would be very welcome

regards

AR Clement

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Beardyclem, and welcome to the Forum!

90 Battery RFA, in 16 Brigade, served in India throughout the war, with 1st (Peshawar) Division. It was not the same unit as 90 Siege Battery RGA.

The seven figure service number suggests that the man served beyond 1920.

26 and 32 Battalions Royal Fusiliers both formed part of 124 Infantry Brigade, 41st Division, and served in France from May 1916 to the end of the war, though 32 Bn was broken up in March 1918.

Ron

[BEARDYCLEM]

Many thanks for the prompt reply.

I'm scratching my head a bit more now ! I wonder if my chap was in the RGA then..... I did notice very late last night that 90th Batt RGA served briefly in Italy at the same time as 26th RF were there. Should I therefore persue the RGA link ?? A tenuous link perhaps and I am aware that I shouldnt look for those things that I want to see, but as far as I am aware we have never had any connection with Indian Army or India for that matter. I havent a clue regarding service numbers ( and admire those who have such a grasp of them ! )

Anyway, many thanks for your help

Regards

Adrian Clement

[kildaremark]

1033560 refers to a different man.

There is an Ernest Newell 1033860, born Portsmouth in 1899. enlisted 16/6/1920 at Winchester. Died 18/7/1925 at Millbank. Previously served with the Hants Regt for 1 year 34 days with regt No. 357049. Previous Royal Artillery number was 294029. Your 90 Battery, will of course therefore be post-war.

Looks like you will need to look up the Hants Regt for war service in this case, if indeed he has any.

Next of kin: Mother Mrs J. Newell, 44 Amelia St., Landport, Portsmouth.

Mark

Edit: July 1920 Distribution list gives 89, 90, 91 Batteries and 140 Howitzer Battery in XVI Brigade were stationed in Palestine.

[kildaremark]

1033560 refers to a different man.

There is an Ernest Newell 1033860, born Portsmouth in 1899. enlisted 16/6/1920 at Winchester. Died 18/7/1925 at Millbank. Previously served with the Hants Regt for 1 year 34 days with regt No. 357049. Previous Royal Artillery number was 294029. Your 90 Battery, will of course therefore be post-war.

Looks like you will need to look up the Hants Regt for war service in this case, if indeed he has any.

Next of kin: Mother Mrs J. Newell, 44 Amelia St., Landport, Portsmouth.

Mark

Edit: July 1920 Distribution list gives 89, 90, 91 Batteries and 140 Howitzer Battery in XVI Brigade were stationed in Palestine.

... and there I was thinking that my research might be worth a thank you!

[Ron Clifton]

Give him time, Mark, he's a newcomer, and may not be able to access the site every day.

Ron

[BEARDYCLEM]

Dear Mark,

Please accept that I wouldnt dream of leaving anybody unthanked for their efforts on my behalf. I do appreciate the time and effort and for that you have my thanks. I have dipped in and out of the forum over the last week but havent had time to do more than glance. My daughters have been in and out just out of interest, but they are not in a position to thank people on my behalf. So, please accept my thanks for your efforts.

Regards

Clem

[BEARDYCLEM]

Dear Mark,

Your information leaves me with a family history enigma. I cant find any trace of a Newell in my family historyand no particular connection to inter war artillery or Palestine. This means that I am left with an inscribed pocket bible found amongst various family heirlooms, about which I have no idea. Your information about earlier service is very interesting and as you suggest, I will have to go down that route in due course to see if I can establish any link to my G/F.

Many thanks

regards

Clem

[gdc]

On 01/12/2014 at 07:29, petwes said:

Tony

Here is the full list of their allocations to Heavy Artillery Groups with dates taken from WO95 / 5494 Allocations of Siege batteries RGA:

Group number Group Type Date Joined Date Left

To Western Front 14/06/1916

19 HAG 19/06/1916 28/07/1916

1 HAG 28/07/1916 07/09/1916

16 HAG 07/09/1916 05/10/1916

56 HAG 05/10/1916 02/12/1916

72 HAG 02/12/1916 20/03/1917

47 HAG 20/03/1917 12/04/1917

10 HAG 12/04/1917 17/05/1917

22 HAG 17/05/1917 20/05/1917

11 HAG 20/05/1917 24/05/1917

49 HAG 24/05/1917 18/06/1917

86 HAG 18/06/1917 04/07/1917

93 HAG 04/07/1917 18/08/1917

17 HAG 18/08/1917 10/09/1917

8 HAG 10/09/1917 30/09/1917

23 HAG 30/09/1917 24/10/1917

14 HAG 24/10/1917 07/11/1917

8 HAG 07/11/1917 21/11/1917

93 HAG 21/11/1917 08/12/1917

8 HAG 08/12/1917 11/11/1918

If the 8th Brigade diary is available it should fill in detail for 1918. WO95 /214?

Peter

 

[gdc]

I have just rechecked and tried some other searches and came across some digital scans of of the' 90th Brigade'   which seems to refere to various Heavy Artillery Groups April 1917 to May 1919. It includes various signals and location references.

.Could these be the diaries of the 90th Siege Artillery ,  Royal Garrison Artillery.?

The reference to these images is WO95 /397. Worth a look if you are interested in this area of the war around Bapaume with aerial support and a 12" Railway Howitzer at Vaulx and the build up to Cambrai .I am trying to read it but need to understand the terminology and references used in the diary as well as the handwriting.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello gdc, and welcome to the Forum!

 

No, 90 Brigade RGA (formerly 90 Heavy Artillery Group) is not the same as 90 Siege Battery. This battery does not appear to have a separate war diary.

 

Ron

Edited 16 January , 2017 by Ron Clifton

[gdc]

Hello Ron

   Many thanks for the information .On further investigation I have found a mention to 46 Heavy Artillery Group in 1916 so I am looking into finding some information on this , maybe order of battle? .I am also trying to investigate the 'trench maps ' around the Baupame area and the location of mebus 'Vulcan' and mebus 'Neptune'. .

If you have any information that would help I would be very grateful as I am very new to this area of research and have lots to learn.

Thanking you

                Graham

[James A Pratt III]

This is from the RFC Communiques 1917-1918 22 July 1917 Cpt Williams of 9 Sqn RFC was spotting for the 90th and 207th Siege batteries and "All 4 pits of hostile batteries were destroyed and many fires and explosions caused while 2 batteries close by were also considerably knocked about.' This was a busy day for RFC Corps Sqns and RGA Siege Batteries. The 90th was in the British 5th army area. It looks like this unit damage.

[gdc]

Hi James,

            Thanks for the information, I'm gradually piecing the actions of the 90th Siege battery together and am surprised to find from your information about the 9th RFC

that there is a reference to a specific battery .I would be fascinated  to read this account.  From what you say about the batteries being 'damaged' this would seem to fit

with some of the verbal stories that I recall but do not have any dates etc.    I am getting gradually closer to finding out the events up to 3rd of November 1917 when my

grandfathers  was at the CCS .

 

    Thanks Very Much

                           Graham

  

[gdc]

Hi James

       I have found some very interesting bits and pieces about the  9th SQN RFC at

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._9_Squadron_RAF

 

First World War

No. 9 Squadron was formed and disbanded twice during the First World War.
The first incarnation was formed on 8 December 1914 at Saint-Omer in France
from a detachment of the RFC HQ to develop the use of radio for reconnaissance
missions; this lasted until March 1915.[1]

Re-formed at Brooklands on 1 April 1915 under the command of Major Hugh Dowding
(later commander of RAF Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain) as a
 reconnaissance squadron,[2] No. 9 returned to France in December 1915,
 flying Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2s. It flew reconnaissance and artillery
spotting missions during the Battle of the Somme in 1916. It re-equipped with
 R.E.8s in May 1917, using them for artillery spotting and contact patrols
 during the Battle of Passchendaele, during which it suffered 57 casualties,
and carrying out short range tactical bombing operations in response to the
German Spring Offensive in March 1918.[3] While it started to receive Bristol
 Fighters in July 1918, it did not completely discard its R.E.8s until after
 the end of the war.
 It was disbanded again in December 1919.[1]

 

Also a mention of a Capt E F Williams at Brooklands school

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/rfc/people_index.htm

Williams    Capt    EF-           Wireless & Observers School Brooklands    31.03.17

Is this the same person??

I now have lots of new 'threads' to follow up Casualty Clearing Stations,RFC SQN ,Batteries, and maps

 

I found your find about the 9 th SQN  fascinating about RFC and Artillery as I also have an interest in early aviation.

Can you please tell me where you found it?

Thank you once again

                    Graham

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[James A Pratt III]

I got my copy of RFC communiques at the Univeristy of Texas Dallas special collections section. They have a lot of WW I aviation stuff there.  On theaerodrome.com forum they are having postings of RFC communiques one century later on a almost daily basis. Of course the people there are mainly interested in air combat.