hen190782 Posted 26 November , 2014 Share Posted 26 November , 2014 There is an article in the Belfast Telegraph tonight in which includes this paragraph: "My parents say they were clearing out the attic and found them in a corner. It is the matter-of-fact way they say it that surprises me. On the table is a collection of my late grandfather's war medals and in the middle the Croix de Guerre, one of the highest military medals the French can bestow. It's not far off the Victoria Cross for equivalence." Would this view be accurate? Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 26 November , 2014 Share Posted 26 November , 2014 Barely anywhere close! The most likely equivalent in British medals would be the Military Medal. Purely my own opinion of course, but I suspect these two are somewhere near in order of merit. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 26 November , 2014 Share Posted 26 November , 2014 If I recall correctly the CdeG is equivalent to the British Mentioned in Despatches. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnumbellum Posted 26 November , 2014 Share Posted 26 November , 2014 A number of British conscientious objectors in the Friends' Ambulance Unit working with the French Army were awarded the Croix de Guerre, which suggests to me that it was for faithful service in arduous conditions, but not necessarily for any spectacular action. as with the VC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 26 November , 2014 Share Posted 26 November , 2014 The British and French systems of awards are so different that it is difficult to determine any relationships between the decorations in the two systems. For other ranks the British Army system during the Great War had the VC, DCM. MM, and MID and the French Army system had the Legion of Honor, Medaille Militaire and Croix de Guerre. The Legion of Honor was rarely awarded to other ranks so it does not really have a place in this discussion. The Medaille Militaire would probably fall somewhere between the VC and DCM and the Croix de Guerre somewhere between a MM and an MID, but as the systems of awards are so different this would at best be an approximation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 26 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2014 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdparker Posted 26 November , 2014 Share Posted 26 November , 2014 My grandfather Francis George Parker was in the RNAS initially with No 3 Sqdn commanded by Charles Rumney Sampson from 12/1914 to 3/1915 when he was transferred to No 1 Wing/Sqdn under W/Cmdr Arthur Longmore. At around this time his unit was awarded the Croix de Guerre and every man in the unit was entitled to wear a fourragere - a small lanyard with the red and green ribbon. I have a picture of him wearing this. I think this demonstrates that the medal was a lower award . Can anyone help with any details about why the RNAS unit received this award? My gut feel is that it would have been most likely have been No 3 Sqdn because Sampson led his men on so many heroic attacks against the enemy in Northern France at the start of the war. Regards Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 26 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2014 Geoff Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 27 November , 2014 Share Posted 27 November , 2014 Hi You can not compare the two countries medals as they have different criteria for awarding. But if you look at the foreign awards to Commonwealth service men & women, then with almost all the citations / recommendations that I have seen over the last 15 odd years, some Criox de Guerre's would qualify, quite easily for a DCM or MM. Obviously there were not enough DCM's or MM's available, so then the authorities used foreign awards to fill the gaps. This way men & women received some sort of recognition, even though at the time, foreign awards were sometimes looked down on. I have seen where soldiers have stated "its only a foreign gong". Most foreign awards are a lot rarer than imperial awards and the authorities usually did the right thing and awarded foreign bravery awards for brave acts and the same for meritorious awards. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 27 November , 2014 Share Posted 27 November , 2014 My grandfather Francis George Parker was in the RNAS initially with No 3 Sqdn commanded by Charles Rumney Sampson from 12/1914 to 3/1915 when he was transferred to No 1 Wing/Sqdn under W/Cmdr Arthur Longmore. At around this time his unit was awarded the Croix de Guerre and every man in the unit was entitled to wear a fourragere - a small lanyard with the red and green ribbon. I have a picture of him wearing this. I think this demonstrates that the medal was a lower award . Geoff. VC's have been awarded in a similar way. For example, 4th BN Royal Marines were awarded to one Officer and one Other Rank a VC for their exploits when storming the Mole at Zeebrugge the officers and men took part in a ballot with one Officer and a Sergeant actually being awarded a VC. All those men in the Battalion had a note placed on their records stating they had been in a ballott for the award of a VC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 27 November , 2014 Share Posted 27 November , 2014 The CdG could be awarded not only to an individual but also to a unit, and, if I remember rightly, to a town/village. What made the CdG such a 'useful' award was that it could also be conferred posthumously. Following a savage day-long artillery duel with German batteries north of the Yser on 26 April 1917, Carnac Battery of the Royal Naval Siege Guns was awarded the CdG by General Mollet, commanding the French 36th Army Corps, with an individual CdG to the battery commander. The General also attended the funeral of the battery's casualties, one officer and two seaman gunners, and personally pinned individual CdGs on the uniform jackets of each man, laid on their coffins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 27 November , 2014 Share Posted 27 November , 2014 I have only one in my collection. It seems the chap was awarded the 34th Divisional Honour Card at the same time as the CdeG. According to the family, it was mentioned by the officer who wrote to the family after the soldier was KIA shortly afterwards. Unfortunately, the letter was lost at some time. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 30 November , 2014 Share Posted 30 November , 2014 It is correct to say that the C De G can be awarded as a unit citation - For the unit decoration of the Croix de guerre, a fourragere (which takes the form of a braided cord) is awarded; this is suspended from the shoulder of an individual's uniform. The award is relatively new - it was only instigated in April 1915, and has already been said, the Croix reinstated an older system of mentions in dispatches, which were only administrative honours with no medal up until that point. Every C De G carries at least one mention awarded for gallantry to any member of the French military or its allies. Degrees indicate the importance of the former soldier's role during the War. The lowest degree is represented by a BRONZE STAR and the highest degree is represented by a SILVER PALM. The number of mentions on a ribbon is not limited. KB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 30 November , 2014 Share Posted 30 November , 2014 KB wrote: "For the unit decoration of the Croix de guerre, a fourragere (which takes the form of a braided cord) is awarded; this is suspended from the shoulder of an individual's uniform." This statement is not quite correct. During the Great War for a unit's first mention it received only a Croix de Guerre on its flag; the fourragere was only awarded after a second mention of the same unit. As far as emblems on the Croix de Guerre, a brigade mention was indicated by a bronze star, a division mention was indicated by a silver star, a corps mention by a silver-gilt star and an army mention by a bronze palm. A silver palm was awarded in lieu of five bronze palms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 1 December , 2014 Share Posted 1 December , 2014 Hi I have 5525 Fr CdG's on my database, which are broken down under the following headings in the LG CdG 5322 With Palm 137 2nd award 19 3rd award 3 With 2 Palms 1 With Silver Gilt Star 6 With Silver Star 17 With Bronze Star 17 With Star 3 Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdparker Posted 1 December , 2014 Share Posted 1 December , 2014 Hi Peter In your database of C de G do you have any references to RNAS 3 Sqdn or 1 Sqdn getting this award? It has been said in this thread that a unit had to be given the award twice in order for a fourragere to be issued so I think maybe it would have been the latter. Regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 2 December , 2014 Share Posted 2 December , 2014 Hi Geoff Sorry I only have individual service men & women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdparker Posted 2 December , 2014 Share Posted 2 December , 2014 Hi Peter Thanks anyway-it was worth a try! Regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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