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Remembered Today:

What is this uniform?


steve4016
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My Granfather was in the Rifle Brigade from 1910-1922, and many years ago he gave me this photograph of his Brother, My Grandfather has written on the reverse, "My dear Brother Frederick"

We know nothing about Frederick Ernest Matthews, and as yet I cannot trace a military record. He was a little older than Granddad born about 1895 Depford England and I have the feeling Granddad looked up to Frederick and may have even joined the army to follow in Frederick's footsteps.

So I should like to find out more about Frederick, was he in the 14-18 war? He must have been I am thinking!

Therefore can anyone confirm my thought that this photo is of the uniform of a Grenadier Guardsman, as the cap badge looks like that, and the Chevrons indicate rank of Corporal, and the armlet looks like that of Regimental Police.

Any help so I can trace him would be really great.

http://mediasvc.ancestry.co.uk/v2/image/namespaces/1093/media/4bb14505-8a20-4134-9c90-9aff84037548?client=TreesUI

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A WW1 Corporal in the Royal Fusiliers--possibly a 'Bomber'? looking at the arm band on his forearm.

More probably Regimental Police as you say.

Robert

Edited by old owl
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How old was your grandfather when he enlisted?

18 years old in 1910 and that means I am wrong about his brother being older. His brother Frederick was born 1895 four years after Granddad. Frederick Ernest Matthews would have been 19 in 1914.

It's a fusilier badge, not Grenadier Guards. I can make out the RP letters on his armlet.

Thank you, but what does the RP stand for.

18 years old in 1910 and that means I am wrong about his brother being older. His brother Frederick was born 1895 four years after Granddad. Frederick Ernest Matthews would have been 19 in 1914.

Thank you, but what does the RP stand for.

Ah Regimental Police.

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Glad you clarified his age. Thought I was in the first stages of old age!!

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Was he from Rotherhithe? If so he served in the London Regiment & some of his service records do exist.

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Was he from Rotherhithe? If so he served in the London Regiment & some of his service records do exist.

Quite close 1.8mls away in Deptford, so that probably is him, where do I look please?

Thanks Steve.

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The address is 86 Eugenia road in Rotherhithe. They are a short set of records between September 1915 and April 1916 for UK only service. The next of kin is noted as William Matthews. They are on Ancestry.

Both Frank Harold and Frederick Ernest have a record of their baptism also on there - they were baptised on the same day in July 1895.

The 1920 Electoral Roll shows:

William Mathews (one 't') - Homeowner

Emma Mathews - Wife of homeowner

Frank Harold Mathews - Eligible by age

at 86 Eugenia Road, Rotherhithe

So, the above records are probably for the right man.

Also

Isaac Wren & Elizabeth Jane Wren at same address

The 1918 Electoral Roll shows William James and Emma Mathews at No 84 Eugenia Road, but not Frank or Frederick, not even as absent voters (oddly).

Isaac and Elizabeth Wren are shown at No 86 with Isaac noted as being an absent voter.

EDIT: On further digging, Frank Harold Matthews is shown on a different page, address as 86 Eugenia Road and marked as Absent on Military duty. (Note that the Absent Voters List will show Military units, if the AVL still exists. This is just from the general Electoral roll).

Steve.

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The address is 86 Eugenia road in Rotherhithe. They are a short set of records between September 1915 and April 1916 for UK only service. The next of kin is noted as William Matthews. They are on Ancestry.

Both Frank Harold and Frederick Ernest have a record of their baptism also on there - they were baptised on the same day in July 1895.

The 1920 Electoral Roll shows:

William Mathews (one 't') - Homeowner

Emma Mathews - Wife of homeowner

Frank Harold Mathews - Eligible by age

at 86 Eugenia Road, Rotherhithe

So, the above records are probably for the right man.

Also

Isaac Wren & Elizabeth Jane Wren at same address

The 1918 Electoral Roll shows William James and Emma Mathews at No 84 Eugenia Road, but not Frank or Frederick, not even as absent voters (oddly).

Isaac and Elizabeth Wren are shown at No 86 with Isaac noted as being an absent voter.

EDIT: On further digging, Frank Harold Matthews is shown on a different page, address as 86 Eugenia Road and marked as Absent on Military duty. (Note that the Absent Voters List will show Military units, if the AVL still exists. This is just from the general Electoral roll).

Steve.

You have them Steve, thanks. I need some adult education classes on genealogy, you interested in starting a class? :-) I have been looking on Ancestry and building a tree, but obviously there are so many other resources out there that I not found and got into yet, for example, I couldn't find the following that you found on Ancestry "They are a short set of records between September 1915 and April 1916 for UK only service. The next of kin is noted as William Matthews. They are on Ancestry" How did you do that search please?

Thank you for all your help. Steve.

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Firstly I use exact searches only in most cases - getting 10,000+ results each time never helps, not for me anyway.

If you click on the Search on the top bar and select search all records you will get the general search page. From there tick the box "Match all terms exactly"

In the name boxes but his surname in one and Frederick Ernest in the other. Make sure the "Restrict to exact" dropdowns below each box are selected. Click Search.

You will then get the results list. I always use the Categories tab rather than the Records one.

Under Military (on the Categories tab) you should see one result for "Pension Records". Click on that. That takes you to a list of 3 results (bizarre... but not unusual). Two of these are Frederick, but are actually identical.

Shortcut if needed:

Results:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=britisharmy&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=Frederick+Ernest&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=Matthews&gsln_x=XO&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=5k3&cp=11

Record:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=britisharmy&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=Frederick+Ernest&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=Matthews&gsln_x=XO&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=5k3&cp=11&pcat=39&fh=1&h=553268&recoff=&ml_rpos=2

Edit:

Frank's marriage register entry with the same address:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_198505-00152/3779696?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dlmamarriages%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dFrank%2bHarold%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dmatthews%26gsln_x%3dXO%26cpxt%3d1%26uidh%3d5k3%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d0%26h%3d3779696%26recoff%3d8%2b9%2b10%2b32%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Baptisms:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/31280_194478-00021/2952152?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dlmabirths%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dfrederick%2bernest%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dmatthews%26gsln_x%3dXO%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d5k3%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d2%26h%3d2952152%26recoff%3d8%2b9%2b10%2b30%2b43%26ml_rpos%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Steve.

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Steve4016 - Now that we've established that he did indeed serve, albeit on Home Service and for a short period with a Territorial unit, I'm almost 100% certain that the photograph that you produced at the beginning shows him serving with the Royal Fusiliers after the War and possibly with a Territorial Battalion of the R.F..

The Territorial Force was created in April 1908 and went in abeyance at the end of WWI. In 1920 it was reformed under the new name of the "Territorial Army" and I suspect that Frederick may have joined it on it's formation and probably continued to serve with them for many years, hence becoming a Corporal in the Regimental Police.

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