Pipe Major D F Robertson 23rd Royal Fusiliers 1st Sportsman's Bt

[jimmy4174]

Hi Ron,

Its a terrible photo but Definitley a braw set of pipes, I would guess Seaforth Kilt and Hose and perhaps sporran aswell, he could possibly be 6336 Piper Alexander Mclennan of the Seaforths

who appears to have no overseas service and lived in the right area, as mentioned in Dick Crawfords Brilliant book Pipers of the Highland regiments 1854 -1902

There's a few Alexander Mclennans on the census and the birth you have found for the 27th March is our man son of John and Anne

He was married in 1909 but lied about his age, probably due to the fact his wife was a good bit youger than him and his real age is given on his death certificate

On the 1911 census he is shown as a Piper/caretaker of Strathpeffer Pavillion.

Thats why I was asking if anyone knew if there was a connection between Strathpeffer (perhaps an officer) and the Sportsmens battalion as it seems odd

that a piper up in Strathpeffer near Dingwall would become the battalions first piper???

Cheers

Jimmy

[Ron Abbott]

I'm currently using a wee notebook computer and it's difficult to make out details; but is the piper wearing a MacKenzie tartan kilt/hose and a Seaforth's sporran?

Appears to be a nice set of pipes as well. Likely silver and ivory mounted. Chanter appears to have a silver sole as well.

Given that his death is recorded in 1940 at Killearnan, I wonder if he could be the same person recorded in the 1881 census as born at Killearnan c1871 and iiving at Wellhouse Cottage and in the 1891 census as being born c1871 at Killearnan and working as a railway porter at Strome Ferry?

Three persons of that name born in 1870/1871 and registered at nearby Knockbain, namely Alexander McLennan, DOB : -27th Mar 1871, son of John and Anne McLennan (nee Stewart).

Another was Alexander McLennan, DOB : 01 Jul 1871, son of Alexander and Catherine McLennan (nee McIver).

The third Alexander McLennan is recorded on familysearch as having been baptised on 27 Aug 1870 and he was the son of John and Jessie McLennan (nee Bain).

I presume you have seen this?

http://www.strathpeffer.org/content/alexander-maclennan-piper

There is indeed a record of an Alexander McLennan marrying a Maggie McKenzie on 5th Mar 1909 at Forres (Kirk of Scotland). He is recorded on the marriage certificate as being a pavilion caretaker and she a cook. His parents are named as John and Annie McLennan (nee Stewart) and hers as Kenneth and Annie McKenzie (nee Stewart).

[jimmy4174]

Hi Ron, Yes I have and they seem to have the same photo as me?

Still need to find a link between Strathpeffer and Sportsmans Battalion

I think the spa was a busy place at that time, perhaps the first CO was there and heard him play?

Jimmy

Edited 29 December , 2015 by jimmy4174

[wbremner]

Hello again Jimmy, hope all is well with you.

The Sportsman's Battalion was recruiting in Scotland in October 1914, and I note that they were in Inverness on October 19th and 20th at the Highland Railway Station Hotel.

For more information see: http://sportsmansgazette.blogspot.com/2014/10/october-20-1914.html

My records also show that McLennan attested on October 20th, 1914, so fair to assume that he saw the newspaper notices and traveled to Inverness (20 miles?) to enlist.

Best,

William

Hi Ron, Yes I have and they seem to have the same photo as me?

Still need to find a link between Strathpeffer and Sportsmans Battalion

I think the spa was a busy place at that time, perhaps the first CO was there and heard him play?

Jimmy

[jimmy4174]

Hello again Jimmy, hope all is well with you.

The Sportsman's Battalion was recruiting in Scotland in October 1914, and I note that they were in Inverness on October 19th and 20th at the Highland Railway Station Hotel.

For more information see: http://sportsmansgazette.blogspot.com/2014/10/october-20-1914.html

My records also show that McLennan attested on October 20th, 1914, so fair to assume that he saw the newspaper notices and traveled to Inverness (20 miles?) to enlist.

Best,

William

Hi William, Great to hear from you

I think that ties him down as you say he enlisted on the 20th of October which is the very day the recruiting team were in Inverness.

I can't pick him out in any of our photo's yet though, can you?

Best Wishes

Jimmy

[Ron Abbott]

Hi Ron,

Its a terrible photo but Definitley a braw set of pipes, I would guess Seaforth Kilt and Hose and perhaps sporran aswell, he could possibly be 6336 Piper Alexander Mclennan of the Seaforths

who appears to have no overseas service and lived in the right area, as mentioned in Dick Crawfords Brilliant book Pipers of the Highland regiments 1854 -1902

There's a few Alexander Mclennans on the census and the birth you have found for the 27th March is our man son of John and Anne

He was married in 1909 but lied about his age, probably due to the fact his wife was a good bit youger than him and his real age is given on his death certificate

On the 1911 census he is shown as a Piper/caretaker of Strathpeffer Pavillion.

Thats why I was asking if anyone knew if there was a connection between Strathpeffer (perhaps an officer) and the Sportsmens battalion as it seems odd

that a piper up in Strathpeffer near Dingwall would become the battalions first piper???

Cheers

Jimmy

His parents are recorded as John McLennan (born c1846 to 1850) and Ann/Anne Stewart (born c1850 to 1852) and married on 27 Dec 1867 at Killearnan.

Appears that Alexander had one brother, namely Roderick McLennan (born c1883), and had sisters called Isabella / Bella (born 03 Mar 1869), Annie (born 09 Jul 1874), Helen / Hellen (born c1877) and Jessie (born c 1879), Donaldina (born c1885) and Catherine (born c1888). There was also another girl born on 19 Jan 1873, however she appears to have died early.

(as an aside, I've also surfaced another piper called Alexander McLennan who served as a Piper (regimental number 1750) in the 1st Bn. Seaforth Highlanders in the late 1800s).

[jimmy4174]

His parents are recorded as John McLennan (born c1846 to 1850) and Ann/Anne Stewart (born c1850 to 1852) and married on 27 Dec 1867 at Killearnan.

Appears that Alexander had one brother, namely Roderick McLennan (born c1883), and had sisters called Isabella / Bella (born 03 Mar 1869), Annie (born 09 Jul 1874), Helen / Hellen (born c1877) and Jessie (born c 1879), Donaldina (born c1885) and Catherine (born c1888). There was also another girl born on 19 Jan 1873, however she appears to have died early.

(as an aside, I've also surfaced another piper called Alexander McLennan who served as a Piper (regimental number 1750) in the 1st Bn. Seaforth Highlanders in the late 1800s).

Hi Ron, Thanks Very Much for the additional members of Alexanders family, I wonder what happened to Roderick and if he also served? I've no record of him being a piper?

There are a few Alexander Mclennans who were Pipers but none quite fit as well as the one listed as a piper at Strathpeffer

The Piper you Identified served in the Afghan War 1880 and the 1882 Egypt Campaign and also had a Long service Good Conduct medal and was born about 1850

Cheers

Jimmy

Edited 30 December , 2015 by jimmy4174

[Ron Abbott]

Hi Ron, Thanks Very Much for the additional members of Alexanders family, I wonder what happened to Roderick and if he also served? I've no record of him being a piper?

There are a few Alexander Mclennans who were Pipers but none quite fit as well as the one listed as a piper at Strathpeffer

The Piper you Identified served in the Afghan War 1880 and the 1882 Egypt Campaign and also had a Long service Good Conduct medal and was born about 1850

Cheers

Jimmy

Yes, I think you're right. The piper in the photo is most likely to be the Alex McLennan of the 23rd Fusiliers or possibly 6336 of the Seaforths, I wonder if the photo was taken pre war?

Funnily enough, I was back home in July and actually had lunch at the Strathpeffer Pavilion one day......If only I'd known then!

(p.s.....fayre at the pavilion was good, home made style cooking and it was reasonably priced).

I wonder if he had any militia/territorial service prior to 1914?

Although he's wearing a civilian outfit in the photo, the tartan could be MacKenzie and the sporran incl. cantle certainly looks similar to that worn by pipers of the Seaforths,

I thought about Gordon and indeed McLennan tartan but if it's of that old photographic type, then the gold stripes of the McLennan tartan are unlikely to have come out, whereas we know that the white stripes in say MacKenzie, Lamont, Forbes or Leslie do show up clearly.

With regard to Roderick McLennan, his brother.....I surfed around today but couldn't work out whether he'd served or not, survived or not. Not enough details known. I couldn't identify a death for him on Scotlands people either. Seven persons of that name recorded who were born between 1882 and 1884, however none appear to be the right guy. There was one who died in Lucknow in 1912 whilst serving with the 1st HLI, but Soldier's Effects have different relatives names recorded in relation to him.

The other things that I'd be interested in knowing are :-

(1) who taught Alex McLennan to play?

(2) although not unknown, I reckon most army pipers continue playing after their time with the military. Did he, and if so; where?

There was the famous MacLennan piping family of several generations, but they all appear to have spelled their surname as 'Mac'.....and at any rate I can't find a connection to them.

[wbremner]

On 12/29/2015 at 16:57, jimmy4174 said:

Hi William, Great to hear from you

I think that ties him down as you say he enlisted on the 20th of October which is the very day the recruiting team were in Inverness.

I can't pick him out in any of our photo's yet though, can you?

Best Wishes

Jimmy

 

Hi Jimmy,

 

I came across another photo of the Sportsman's Battalion marching band, this time at a funeral of a Canadian soldier on May 2nd 1915.

 

It looks like there could be six pipers behind the bass drum, with their pipes on their backs (hence the strap?), and possibly the piper major (Robertson?) to their right.

 

Take a look and let me know what you see.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

William

 

[Ron Abbott]

I don't see any pipes......I'm thinking buglers.

 

Even if they were pipers and had their instruments strung up somehow on their backs (for some unknown reason), I'd expect to see the bass drone or other drones sticking out somewhere behind the body/head!

[wbremner]

12 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

I'm thinking buglers

 

Hi Ron,

 

That makes sense, especially in light of this report of the funeral for a Pte. J. McRitchie (SPTS/1075) dated March 19th 1915. It mentions multiple buglers but one piper.

 

 

Thanks,

 

William

[Ron Abbott]

22 hours ago, wbremner said:

 

Hi Ron,

 

That makes sense, especially in light of this report of the funeral for a Pte. J. McRitchie (SPTS/1075) dated March 19th 1915. It mentions multiple buglers but one piper.

 

 

Thanks,

 

William

 

Hi William,

 

I'm using a decent computer now with a good screen and when I enlarge the photo, it's apparent that they have bugles in their right hands. 

 

I can't make out a piper anywhere in the photo.

 

Cheers/Ron

[wbremner]

On 9/20/2016 at 06:46, Ron Abbott said:

I'm using a decent computer now with a good screen and when I enlarge the photo, it's apparent that they have bugles in their right hands. 

 

Clearly  I need a better screen. Or better eyes!

 

Thanks.

[jimmy4174]

On 11/22/2014 at 17:50, wbremner said:

Hi Jimmy, I have that book as well, but had forgotten about that particular picture, thanks for the reminder.

Thanks also for the other pipers. Interesting to note that 4067 is not J Adamson. There are a number of mistakes in Ward's book that I am correcting in my database, and that is one of them. SPTS/4067 was assigned to G.F. Constable (I have reviewed his attestation papers), and 4076 to L.L. Blackford (in case there was a typo). So Adamson is still a bit of a mystery, as is D Leath. I have found nothing on him either. I'm assuming they both transferred from another regiment later in the war, perhaps to replace the two who were killed.

I realize that this is getting a bit off topic, but although "Pipes of War" lists the deaths of MacKenzie and Suttie as 16/3/16, officially they are recorded as dying "of wounds" on 17/3/16. Based on a quick scan of the War Diaries, the Battalion was not engaged in a major action at the time, and there is a rather perplexing entry on the 16th:

"Pipes of War" indicates that the 23rd RF pipers were kept behind the lines, so the fact that both of them were wounded/killed on the same day is a bit odd. Not sure what to make of that.

 

Hi William,

It's been a while since anything was added to this post but I've just dicovered a photo of William Mckenzie of the Sportsmens Battalion and it has his a date of death as 16th Mar 1916

It's amazing what pops up on the internet. I notice he is also wearing Pipe Majors Chevrons on his sleeve?

Cheers

Jimmy

[wbremner]

Great stuff, thanks Jimmy! Can't believe it's been 3 years!

 

Is that the best picture available? I'd like to see if I can locate him in the other pictures I have. 

 

Also, do you know the significance of the Sheffield hotel listed at the bottom?

[jimmy4174]

 

Edited 8 December , 2017 by jimmy4174

[jimmy4174]

Hi William, Yes it's been a while and it just shows if you wait long enough things do turn up, It's a shame it's not Robertson though :-(

That's two photos of definite band members now with a possible third if Micheal ever managed to get the photo of Johnstone from the Glasgow Evening times on the 5th April 1916???

I found this photo along with another Piper while I was searching for a Piper Urquhart in the 2nd Royal Scots Fusiliers who was a POW in 1914, Does anyone have a 1914 or earlier photo of the 2nd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers Pipe Band??? Not the first battalion thanks.

Anyway the other piper is George Urquhart who was later to become the Pipe Major of Sheffield Pipe Band and a Very good friend of William Mckenzie of the Sportsmens Battalion. If you check out the link posted below William there is a letter written by Piper McKenzie just before he was killed, he was apparently the cook .

Now if Ron or anyone else can Identify the uniform, perhaps Seaforth Volunteers? That would be a big help

https://cityofsheffieldpipeband.wordpress.com/history/p-m-george-urquhart/

 

Cheers

Jimmy