Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 18 November , 2014 Share Posted 18 November , 2014 Not my subject at all, but I'm looking (I'm having to look) at a couple of RAF squadrons during 1918, and I'm having some problems. Firstly No 43 (Fighter) Squadron about April - May 1918. At some point early May (?) they move from northern Artois to the south - about Avesnes. Can anybody say exactly when this happened and, was the move made by the squadron in-toto or were sections of the squadron flying from both areas at some time ? Also, has anybody ever looked at 43 Sqdn casualties in detail about this period ? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 19 November , 2014 Share Posted 19 November , 2014 Hi Tom I have 43 Sqn moving from La Gorgue to Avesnes-le-Comte on 22 March 1918 under 13 Wing, 3 Brigade, coming under control of 51 Wing, 9 Brigade on 4 April (but staying at Avesnes-le-Comte) and moving to Fouquerolles on 3 June, still with 51 Wing, 9 Brigade. As far as I am aware, the squadron moved en-masse both times. Are you interested in any specific casualties? The squadron appears to have suffered 20 casualties in the period 25 March to 30 May 1918. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 19 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2014 Graeme - please bear with me on this because areas of TNA which are prefixed "AIR" and "ADM" are foreign territory to me The 43 Squadron history in AIR1/1420/204/30/6 shows them (as you say) at La Gorgue 15/1/18 till 23/3/18, then moving to Avesnes le Comte same date, and staying there till 3/6/18. However (and this is what is throwing me) the squadron combat reports in AIR1/1424/204/30/19 include reports of offensive patrols as follows > May - Area 3rd - Vieux Berquin 8th - SE of Bailleul 9th - S of Foret de Nieppe 9th - E of Albert 9th - SE of La Gorgue 15th - Croiselles If the squadron is based in Avesnes le Comte then only two of those make any sense geographically. Why would (how could) a squadron based at Avesnes have aircraft flying near Bailleul or the Foret de Nieppe ? Initially I had been looking at AH Whitford-Hawkey Kia 9/5/18 apparently near Albert, but then I noticed in "The Sky Their Battlefield" TM O'Neil of 43 Sqdn Kia 8/5/18 "eBAILLEUL". Both are on the Arras Flying Memorial, so no burial clues to the location of death. Where would this information as to where they were shot down have come from ? (I didn't see anything obvious in the AIR1 files. I have tried to contact TH directly, but without success). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 22 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2014 This is still giving me a problem so I'll bump it back up. Both of the men mentioned above appear in The Sky Their Battlefield so their must be a source (?). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 (edited) Tom, I would guess that the information comes from the Casualty and Incident Reports, that are now available online here. I can find O'Neil's and it definitely records "East of Bailleul". I haven't been able to find the cards for Whitford-Hawkey, so far. Edit: I have now found Whitford- Hawkey's incident card - "Believed to have been shot down in flames SE of Albert" Edited 22 November , 2014 by Phil Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nieuport11 Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 The full casualty report for O'Neill is in AIR 1/855/... and records 'last seen E of Bailleul'. This is not the location of the crash, which I think answers your query Also appears in the Casualty book in AIR 1/969/... and the casualty cards referred to above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 22 November , 2014 Share Posted 22 November , 2014 Hi Tom Sorry for the late reply, but for some reason my browser wasn't showing any updates on the Forum - seems to be sorted now, though. I must admit I hadn't noticed the anomaly in regards locations of 43 Sqn's aerodromes and the areas mentioned in their combat reports and would suspect that there has been a recording error with regards to the squadron's move. I'll have a dig around and see if I can find anything that might clear things up. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 23 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2014 I would guess that the information comes from the Casualty and Incident Reports, that are now available online here. The full casualty report for O'Neill is in AIR 1/855/... Also appears in the Casualty book in AIR 1/969/... AIR1/855/204/5/406 and AIR1/969/204/5/1101 (?) - I'll check them out next time I'm in TNA - thanks. ... I must admit I hadn't noticed the anomaly in regards locations of 43 Sqn's aerodromes and the areas mentioned in their combat reports and would suspect that there has been a recording error with regards to the squadron's move. I'll have a dig around and see if I can find anything that might clear things up. I'm at a disadvantage here because I don't have any great knowledge about the aircraft of the period, but the distances involved did look a bit odd to me (too great). I also wonder if a move date has been miss-recorded and then that error has just been repeated through the document chain ? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nieuport11 Posted 24 November , 2014 Share Posted 24 November , 2014 On 9th May 43Sq also lost Camel D6588 brought down by AA fire during a practice formation flight. The location of the crash is given as Sht 36A.36c.4.2 so that should give a clue as to their location All of the casualty reports and the casualty books have been transcribed and can be downloaded from www.airhistory.org.uk/rfc/ Transcripts of the RAF Museum casualty cards, including serials etc will be available in about a fortnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 24 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2014 ... The location of the crash is given as Sht 36A.36c.4.2 so that should give a clue as to their location All of the casualty reports and the casualty books have been transcribed and can be downloaded from www.airhistory.org.uk/rfc/ The www address is showing "page cannot be displayed". Also - is that map ref correct ? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 24 November , 2014 Share Posted 24 November , 2014 On 9th May 43Sq also lost Camel D6588 brought down by AA fire during a practice formation flight. The location of the crash is given as Sht 36A.36c.4.2 so that should give a clue as to their location Is there a way of checking that map reference? There is something wrong with it. I checked it on the casrep database on the RFC site and that is how it has been transcribed. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nieuport11 Posted 24 November , 2014 Share Posted 24 November , 2014 Agreed it doesn't seem to be a standard reference That is how it is typed (twice) on the W3347 casualty report Is it perhaps the map that includes both 36a and 36c shown as 14WW1MAP on: http://lt1.mcmaster.ca/ww1/wrz4mp.php?grid=36a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 24 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2014 This still seems to be something of a muddle with regards to the accuracy of the source documents, but I think enough information has been posted (TNA refs etc) to allow me to resolve the particular problem which I had ref some of the 43 Sqdn men. This moves me on to my next RAF related problem which concerns an entry in The Sky Their Battlefield which refers to a particular aircraft heading to a particular destination when it is shot down. I've been through docs indexed in AIR1 which seemed relevant, but I cant find any reference to the destination given, - and this confirmation is a matter of some importance. - No 6 Sqdn during 1918. If anybody thinks they may be able to help with this could they please contact me off forum via famousraider AT btinternet.com Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrid Posted 9 September , 2018 Share Posted 9 September , 2018 Hello, any chance to see from the Combat Reports of the evening patrol 9th of May, east of Albert, which kind of enemy aircraft were noticed? madrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 9 September , 2018 Share Posted 9 September , 2018 Capt H W Woollett claimed an Albatros Scout as crashed south of La Gorgue at 15:15/16:15 and Lieut G G Bailey another that broke up in the air south of Nieppe Forest; both combats quoted as being at 15:15 (British time)/16:15 (German time). Woollett shot down a balloon in flames north-east of La Gorgue at 15:20/16:20 and Lieut G D Daly claimed a Fokker triplane out of control east of Albert at 19:00/20:00. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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