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ARMY SERVICE CORP SENT TO SALONKA AS REINFORCEMENT 30.1.17

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sian leitch

Thank you so much Kenf48, you have explained some army terminology really well to a not very knowledgable researcher of WW1 records. You have definately given me some ideas for future research. Cheers

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gaffa

Did anyone from the 246 Coy go to Salonika?

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kenf48
4 hours ago, gaffa said:

Did anyone from the 246 Coy go to Salonika?

 

246 Company did not go to Salonika whether individual soldiers did...maybe.

We're good but without a name can't really help.

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gaffa

Edwin Evan Williams

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kenf48
On 15/05/2018 at 22:03, gaffa said:

Edwin Evan Williams

 

There are a number of Edwin Williams in the Rolls, however there is an Evan Edward Williams M2/166483.

Is that him? Numbers either side of him were posted to India.

 

Ken

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gaffa
23 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

There are a number of Edwin Williams in the Rolls, however there is an Evan Edward Williams M2/166483.

Is that him? Numbers either side of him were posted to India.

 

Ken

NO

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JMSpencer

Hi everyone,

I managed (eventually) to find my Grandad's WW1 service record, but it's one that's terrible to read! I worked out, not having any great military knowledge, that he was ASC (HT) and served in France for the latter part of 1916, then transported to Selonika and then on to Egypt. He arrived home in 1919. He signed up in 1914 for the Territorial Force but wasn't called up until 1916, when he was aged 30.

 

My questions - he appeared to have spent a short time in hospital in France and was discharged from his unit; I can't read why he was a Casualty, but appeared to have rejoined another unit. Any ideas why that might be?

Also, I think he was a horseminder in France but (possibly) a vehicle driver in Selonika and Egypt, where his rank changed to Lieutenant?? Has anyone come across this before? He had a very common surname, Green, but I traced his records using his home address - so it's the right record.  I'm mystified.

Thanks for any possible explanations! Jo.

Edited by JMSpencer

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familyhistoryman
2 hours ago, JMSpencer said:

Hi everyone,

I managed (eventually) to find my Grandad's WW1 service record, but it's one that's terrible to read! I worked out, not having any great military knowledge, that he was ASC (HT) and served in France for the latter part of 1916, then transported to Selonika and then on to Egypt. He arrived home in 1919. He signed up in 1914 for the Territorial Force but wasn't called up until 1916, when he was aged 30.

 

My questions - he appeared to have spent a short time in hospital in France and was discharged from his unit; I can't read why he was a Casualty, but appeared to have rejoined another unit. Any ideas why that might be?

Also, I think he was a horseminder in France but (possibly) a vehicle driver in Selonika and Egypt, where his rank changed to Lieutenant?? Has anyone come across this before? He had a very common surname, Green, but I traced his records using his home address - so it's the right record.  I'm mystified.

Thanks for any possible explanations! Jo.

Jo

Can you let us know his name and number

Tony

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gaffa
On 20/03/2017 at 20:46, kenf48 said:

 

I helps if you start with what you know.

 

He was a 'Special Enlistment' as a shoeing smith.  This means he was recruited to follow his peacetime occupation while serving in the Army.  Typically men who were enlisted in this way were paid more than the infantryman (his record shows 5 shillings a day as opposed to the infantryman's basic of a shilling a day).  They received the minimum of training as a soldier, more an orientation to understand the 'Army way' but would be required to take trade or proficiency tests.  They were not expected to fight, nor to be deployed on the front line however in times of crisis especially on the Western Front they would be expected to know how to use a rifle.

 

As his record shows he enlisted on the 8th March 1915 and was allocated the number TS/6431.  He made and fitted horse shoes He  remained in the UK until 25th January 1916 when he was posted to Salonica where he remained until 7th May 1919.  He embarked for home on the 8th May 1919 and arrived on the 24th May.  He was discharged  to the Class Z Reserve on the 2Ist  June 1919 at Woolwich.  He was finally demobilised on 31 March 1920 (Kings Regulation para 392 xxviii, i.e. reason for discharge - on demobilisation).  He joined the TA in July and if you go backwards on Ancestry from the image you land on from the search page there are extensive details of his post war service.  He was eventually promoted to Farrier Sergeant in the TA.

 

His discharge papers show 573 Coy 3 BHTD (suggest  3rd Base Horse Transport Depot, or as you say 3rd Base Depot).  The Base Depot was around the port of Salonika and this is confirmed by a minor disciplinary report in his record which notes he was disciplined at Salonika.  The same sheet, which unfortunately has been chopped off gives a clue to his UK posting as Hampshire, one entry is .....ry Hill (? Strawberry Hill Newbury?).  He would have been around Aldershot.

 

On discharge he received a pension as, in common with most soldiers who served in Salonika, he was suffering from malaria.  There is no indication in the surviving records that he served elsewhere than at the Base Depot at Salonika where he would have carried on his army and peacetime trade shoeing and looking after horses.

 

Ken

 

 

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gaffa

Ken, The discharge company is the last Company the guy was with, My Grandfather had been transferred several times and his history is very hard to find Possibly 270,279 ,486 852 & finally the 573. He went to Egypt, Gallipoli and Salonika plus some of the Islands around the Med i.e Murdros, Imbros, Skyros 

 

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kenf48
17 minutes ago, gaffa said:

Ken, The discharge company is the last Company the guy was with, My Grandfather had been transferred several times and his history is very hard to find Possibly 270,279 ,486 852 & finally the 573. He went to Egypt, Gallipoli and Salonika plus some of the Islands around the Med i.e Murdros, Imbros, Skyros 

 

 

The above post which you have quoted was to assist in the interpretation of the service record of John Henry Perkins for forum pal Sian, for which I received a courteous thank you in March 2017.  There is no evidence your man followed the same route.  I am aware of the significance of the discharge unit.

 

Ken

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gaffa

Ken go back to earlier posts Edwin Evan Williams his diary is what I am trying  to work out
Embarked from Avonmouth 8th March [No Coy or Regiment mentioned] on the Minnetonka.

Passed Gibraltar 12th March, Arrived Malta 17th March. Arrived Limnos, Greece 21st March

Left Limnos 24th March. Arrived at Port Said, Egypt 26th March

Left Port Said 13th April  Arrived Skyros 16th April.Left Skyros 24th April.

Arrived Saros 25th April At the Dardanelles the following night. 26th April

I can only presume he was working off loading/ help setting up Horse camp etc, on a [V or W?] Beach.

Left the Dards for Limnos on the 28th May  Arrived at Alexandria 3rd June 1915.

He then goe to Salonika 1916, He mentions transfers to different Coys ended up with 27th Division in Tiflis

Then ends with 573 Coy at Woolwich. I had assumed he was with 29th Division before I got his diary.

Gaffa

 

 

Edited by gaffa
update

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JMSpencer
On 26/11/2018 at 07:09, familyhistoryman said:

Jo

Can you let us know his name and number

Tony

Hi Tony

His name was Robert Leonard Green of 1-4 High Street Stanford le Hope. His number was 240091. I can read some of his record but reading it on the PC wasn't really good and printing it wasn't a lot better. But looking at his Army Form B103 he left Southampton-France in 1916 and on to Salonica in December the same year. He was in Alexandria in July 1917, and Kantara in January 1918 (discharged from hospital back to HQ RGA). He finally left Port Said in February 1919. I suspect, looking at it again, his 4-year service would have been up in 1918 so he just signed on again straight from Sick Leave. But I can’t read the B103 well enough to figure out why he was hospitalised. Thanks in advance for any suggestions, Jo.

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kenf48
2 hours ago, JMSpencer said:

Hi Tony

His name was Robert Leonard Green of 1-4 High Street Stanford le Hope. His number was 240091. I can read some of his record but reading it on the PC wasn't really good and printing it wasn't a lot better. But looking at his Army Form B103 he left Southampton-France in 1916 and on to Salonica in December the same year. He was in Alexandria in July 1917, and Kantara in January 1918 (discharged from hospital back to HQ RGA). He finally left Port Said in February 1919. I suspect, looking at it again, his 4-year service would have been up in 1918 so he just signed on again straight from Sick Leave. But I can’t read the B103 well enough to figure out why he was hospitalised. Thanks in advance for any suggestions, Jo.

 

Men who enlisted in the Territorial Force prior to 1914 did so for ‘Home Service’.  Many signed the ‘Imperial Obligation’ on enlistment to serve overseas. 

Driver Green enlisted on the 29th September 1914, and signed the ‘obligation’ on enlistment (Army Form E 624).  This was common place for wartime enlistment.  He was posted to the 2/2nd London Division Divisional Train. The 2/2 was the second line or reserve Division of the 2nd London (TF) Division.  He served ‘at home’ with the Division until posted to the BEF on 22 June 1916, embarking  Southampton on the 22nd, landing at Havre the following day.  

See LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/60th-division/

 

On the 1st September 1916 he was posted to the Regular ASC.  This effectively meant he was now in the Army for the duration of the war.  It was to a large extent an administrative device for the ASC.

I can see no evidence he was hospitalised in France.

 

There is a stamp on the record confirming he was medical classification ‘A’ dated 30/09/1917.

 

He moved to Salonica with the rest of the Division in November 1916.

On the 21 February 1917 he was appointed Acting Lance Corporal.

In July 1917 he moved with the Headquarters element of 60 Division ASC to Egypt, as in LLT link above.

 

He was admitted to hospital in Egypt with what appears to be cervical adentitis which according to Dr Google is a bacterial infection.

 

On 24 January 1918 he was posted to the Royal Garrison Artillery and reverted to Driver on relinquishing his duties with the ASC.  It was not a demotion as Lance Corporal was an appointment.

 

He then returned to the U.K. as you have seen and previously posted.  Throughout his service he was a driver, horse transport.

 

Ken

 

Edited by kenf48

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Ken,

You are a credit to the Great War Forum!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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JMSpencer

Thank

On 25/12/2018 at 22:59, kenf48 said:

 

Men who enlisted in the Territorial Force prior to 1914 did so for ‘Home Service’.  Many signed the ‘Imperial Obligation’ on enlistment to serve overseas. 

Driver Green enlisted on the 29th September 1914, and signed the ‘obligation’ on enlistment (Army Form E 624).  This was common place for wartime enlistment.  He was posted to the 2/2nd London Division Divisional Train. The 2/2 was the second line or reserve Division of the 2nd London (TF) Division.  He served ‘at home’ with the Division until posted to the BEF on 22 June 1916, embarking  Southampton on the 22nd, landing at Havre the following day.  

See LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/60th-division/

 

On the 1st September 1916 he was posted to the Regular ASC.  This effectively meant he was now in the Army for the duration of the war.  It was to a large extent an administrative device for the ASC.

I can see no evidence he was hospitalised in France.

 

There is a stamp on the record confirming he was medical classification ‘A’ dated 30/09/1917.

 

He moved to Salonica with the rest of the Division in November 1916.

On the 21 February 1917 he was appointed Acting Lance Corporal.

In July 1917 he moved with the Headquarters element of 60 Division ASC to Egypt, as in LLT link above.

 

He was admitted to hospital in Egypt with what appears to be cervical adentitis which according to Dr Google is a bacterial infection.

 

On 24 January 1918 he was posted to the Royal Garrison Artillery and reverted to Driver on relinquishing his duties with the ASC.  It was not a demotion as Lance Corporal was an appointment.

 

He then returned to the U.K. as you have seen and previously posted.  Throughout his service he was a driver, horse transport.

 

Ken

 

Thanks Ken, that's terrific help! Very grateful for this. Fills in some big gaps for me; he never spoke of his WW1 service, not even to my father who passed away in 1999. There's few people left to ask..... Best wishes, Jo 

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