WW 1 name missing on memorial

[baguley]

Hi

Could I ask for help or advice, I have been trying for a long time to find my g. uncles name on the war memorial in his home town I have walked round them all and found nothing so I have been to the surrounding villages but with no luck, I finally wrote to the Wigan archives to ask did they know were he was they had to admit they could not find him.

one suggestion was because he was in the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry his name must be in Yorkshire somewhere, could this be a possibility is there somewhere I could write to in Yorkshire that could help

Shelagh

[ss002d6252]

War Memorials were created on a local basis with a thousand and one different criteria for inclusion and ways of gathering names. Very few memorials are inclusive and many men are not named on any local memorial.

Who is your great uncle ?

Craig

[Old Owl]

Hi Shelagh,

If you could post his details here, then it is quite possible that someone will be able to help you with your query. Please give as much detail(military)as you can.

Robert

[Phil Wood]

There is a KOYLI memorial chapel in York Minster, which may well have a book of remembrance with the chap's name in it.

[baguley]

Hi

Thank you

His name was Michael Mcgarrigan he was killed in action on the 14 Sep 1917,

he is buried at Faveruil British Cemetery, Pas De Calais France, he was buried with full military honors, his two brothers carried his coffin to the grave, I have all his details and i have visited his grave there are only two things I cant find out about Michael, one, is his name mentioned on one of the memorials, and two were did he die, thank you Graig I honestly didn't realize till just that not all men's names were not engraved. i am going to look at the York Minster

Shelagh

[KevinBattle]

Are you sure you've not been looking for the wrong Name?

It's spelt differently in the CWGC Debt of Honour Database as

McGARRAGAN, MICHAEL. Rank: Private. Service No: 240453. Date of Death: 14/09/1917. Age: 28.

Regiment/Service: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 2nd/5th Bn.

Grave Reference: I. E. 24. Cemetery: FAVREUIL BRITISH CEMETERY.

Additional Information: Son of James and Mary McGarragan.

You may have Pals searching for the wrong spelling as I could only find this chap, who died at the Battle of Jutland.

MACGARRIGAN, WILLIAM. Rank: Stoker 1st Class. Service No: 286555. Date of Death: 31/05/1916. Age: 39.

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy H.M.S. "Queen Mary."

Panel Reference: 18. Memorial: PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL.

Additional Information: Husband of K. Macgarrigan, of 98, Manchester Rd., Altringham, Cheshire.

It looks as if spelling the family surname was a problem for enumerators, too!

Name: Mickel McGarragan. Age in 1911: 20. Birth Year: abt 1891. Relation to Head: Boarder.

Birth Place: Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire. Street address: 4 Mount Ivanhoe Off Old Rd Ashton In Makerfield

Marital Status: Single. Occupation: Coal Miner Hewer.

1901 Census: Name: Michael Mc Garrigan. Age: 9. Birth Year: abt 1892.

Father: James Mc Garrigan. Birth Place: Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire.

James Mc Garrigan, 40; Thomas Mc Garrigan, 19; Frank Mc Garrigan, 17; James Mc Garrigan, 14; Sylvester Mc Garrigan, 12; Michael Mc Garrigan, 9; Belindia Mc Garrigan, 7;

Annie Mc Garrigan, 6.

Name: Sylvester Mc Garragan. Age in 1911: 22. Birth Year: abt 1889. Relation to Head: Boarder

Street address: 34 York Rd Ashton In Makerfield. Marital Status: Single. Occupation: Coal Miner.

(only included as easiest to find, and looks as if he went to USA before WW2).

I'd guess that James may have died sometime after the 1911 census and the family went to live with relatives or boarded with workmates.

With no adult family to endure his Name was added to a War Memorial, that may be why it's not possible to find him.

In the vast majority of cases Names had to be put forward for inclusion where they lived, and no one returned the Final Verification Form to the fore runner of the CWGC, so no age or Additional Information shows.

I'm sorry, but it may be that he was not included in any Named War Memorial, but you have ensured that he is remembered.

It would appear that to have two brothers as pall bearers seems rather unusual, as many men wouldn't be able to get leave from the trenches.

Do you know which brothers were there? At least he wasn't buried by strangers.

[Old Tom]

This story provokes a trail of thought. Is the following accurate? Mark you this is not an aspect of the Great War which I know much about. A soldier killed in action and buried in a known grave and his remains moved to a cemetery has a headstone which is his memorial. If he was not identified when buried he may had a headstone ' A soldier of the Great War, Known unto God' and his name will be on one the memorials such as the Thiepval, as it would if no remains were found.. Whether or not his name appears on a memorial near his home depends on how the local people or council decided the names to be added as Craig has said (post 2).

Old Tom

[TEW]

Battalion diary shows that in Sept 1917 they were at Bullecourt.

On the 14th the 2/5th Bn. were relieved by the 2/4th and HQ, A & B Coys. of 2/5th went to Ecoust while C & D Coys. stayed in support to the 2/4th. Diary records 1OR killed.

The 2/4th KOYLI took over the following trenches:

TOWER SUPPORT

TOWER REDOUBT

GORDON SUPPORT

Tower trench is marked on this map just in front of Bullecourt

TEW

[baguley]

Hi

You are right about Michael's surname it changes from one moment to the next he was registered at birth Mcgarragan his siblings born with the name Mcgarrigan it changes so many times with their birth death and marriage certificates but Mcgarrigan is the name the family stayed with, so I did bare this in mind when I did my searches. I must apologies for not explaining this confusion with Michael's name

In 1911 Michael was living at 4 Morden Ave. Ashton-in-Makerfield. and when he enlisted he was still in Ashton

I must seem odd for his brothers to carry his coffin but I do have documents do support this. so my next quest is to find out were Michael lost his life.

Than you old Tom it helps me knowing that not all solders were mentioned on the memorials and he wasn't just forgotten. I have visited Michael's grave at Favreuil it is a peaceful and beautifully kept cemetery

Shelagh

[baguley]

TEW

Thank you so much for this information, my next stop was war diaries, but you have helped me start my search

Shelagh

[KevinBattle]

From what TEW has quoted from the War Diary, it seems an obvious conclusion that the "1 other ranks killed" is your Michael.

Furthermore, he has given you the approximate location of the Battalion, in and near Tower Trench, near Bullecourt.

You also now know he was in either C or D Company.

Not too many people have that level of detail about their loved ones, you have a grave and now a location and which part of the Battalion.

Also, he had 2 brothers accompany him on his last journey, again something denied to so many.

You may not have a Memorial in the UK, but as you know, you can actually be at his graveside, far better than any piece of stone or metal.

It may be too far removed in time to know the actual cause of death, be it sniper or shell, but his passing was of sufficient note to be recorded (and no one had to worry about the spelling!).

You also have a lot of documents relating to him and his family, and most importantly, he has you to care about him.

[IRC Kevin]

Shelagh

You'll be lucky to find anyone on Ashton's war memorial as there isn't one. Men were remembered on a series of small memorials, most of which no longer exist as they were inside buildings, such as chapels, that were demolished long ago. If he's anywhere, he'll be on that small obelisk memorial set back from the road on the junction of Wigan Rd and Carnegie Drive. To my knowledge he's not been associated with Ashton before, but I've now added him to my database which is used in a number of local schools.

You may find a picture as he's in the index for the Wigan Observer, August-December 1917, page 113. Also named in the index on the same page is Frank McGarragan. If you e-mail R.MusaATwlct.org you may be able to get a print-off of the entry. (I've changed the @ to AT to foil spam robots, though this e-mail address was posted on the internet by Leigh Local Studies) If you don't get any luck from there, you'll be able to access the microfilm in Wigan's 'History Shop'.

His original house still exists (in fact an old army friend of mine lived in it until his divorce!) Morden Avenue can't be much over 100 yards long, yet three men from there were killed.

regards,

Kevin

[baguley]

Major General

Thank you so much I have put all these details in Michael's file. I know now were he died thank to this marvelous great war forum, I do know how he died a shell blast to the chest, and he had his brother carry him at his last resting place, it doesn't matter if his name is not on a memorial he wont be forgotten he was one of five brother who went to war Michael was the only one who didn't come home,

I am now waiting for his poppy to be delivered from the tower

Thank you all for your help

Shelagh

[baguley]

Kevin

Yes I have seen the obelisk in Wigan Road , also been round the church yards in Ashton and Golborne, I often visit the Wigan History Shop and I did get all the details that they held for Michael and Frank and I did get copy's from them. Yes I have seen the house in Morden Avenue he also lived in Flora Street but I have never been able to pin point Sumner's Yard somewhere of Gerard Street I think

Shelagh

[IRC Kevin]

Kevin

Yes I have seen the obelisk in Wigan Road , also been round the church yards in Ashton and Golborne, I often visit the Wigan History Shop and I did get all the details that they held for Michael and Frank and I did get copy's from them. Yes I have seen the house in Morden Avenue he also lived in Flora Street but I have never been able to pin point Sumner's Yard somewhere of Gerard Street I think

Shelagh

Sumner's Yard was between Gerard St and the market. It was accessed down that entry between Coral and Thomsons' on Gerard St.

[baguley]

Kevin

well I never I walk past it every week and didn't know it was there, I know there is no street or yard name any more but it must have been a big yard there was a good few houses up that entry

Shelagh

[Guest]

On 11/13/2014 at 13:42, baguley said:

Hi

 

 

 

 

You are right about Michael's surname it changes from one moment to the next he was registered at birth Mcgarragan his siblings born with the name Mcgarrigan it changes so many times with their birth death and marriage certificates but Mcgarrigan is the name the family stayed with, so I did bare this in mind when I did my searches. I must apologies for not explaining this confusion with Michael's name

 

 

In 1911 Michael was living at 4 Morden Ave. Ashton-in-Makerfield. and when he enlisted he was still in Ashton

 

 

I must seem odd for his brothers to carry his coffin but I do have documents do support this. so my next quest is to find out were Michael lost his life.

 

 

 

 

 

Than you old Tom it helps me knowing that not all solders were mentioned on the memorials and he wasn't just forgotten. I have visited Michael's grave at Favreuil it is a peaceful and beautifully kept cemetery

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shelagh

 

 

Hi Shelagh, 

 

Late to the search over here in regards to discovering more on Michael! Slyvester is my great-Grandfather and while I have seen some documents with the McGarrigan spelling, that is not what stuck. Marriage licenses, death certificates and landing cards all have McGarragan as the proper spelling. It is also the spelling used by my Mother, aunts and other McGarragan cousins stateside or in Canada. I would love to talk more with you in regards to our research and share stories. We have a sizable group of Detroit McGarragan's descended from Slyvester and his wife Mary Ellen (Molly) Horkan. 

 

M