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Remembered Today:

Fred and William Mansley


DavidM
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I always knew that my maternal grandmother lost two brothers in WW1 but I have only just discovered their names.

Sergeant Fred Mansley was in the 9th Battalion of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment and was killed on the 14th January 1916 and was buried at Bailleul Communal Cemetery Extension, Nord.

His brother, born in 1894, was Private William Mansley and died in April 1918. William was in the 1st Battalion in the same regiment and is named on the Loos Memorial

I am very excited to have discovered this much but, and maybe it's a shot in the dark, but does anyone happen to know any more about these two brothers?

Thank you.

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If you haven't already, have a look at The Long, Long Trail website here - you'll be able to follow the 1st Battalion and the 9th Battalion of the New Armies by Brigade and Division and get a good idea of the actions/battles involved.

There are also the battalions' war diaries at the National Archives - the 9th here and the 1st here. It's very unlikely that Fred and William will be mentioned by name but the diaries usually give excellent context and day-to-day detail.

Mike

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I am indebted to you both for your replies.

Mike, I shall take a look. As you say, I may find out where they were and what they were likely to have been doing on the days they died.

Chaz, your reply is particularly intriguing. If they have paperwork surviving could you tell me what it is and where I might see it please?

Thanks again to you both.

David

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Chaz, your reply is particularly intriguing. If they have paperwork surviving could you tell me what it is and where I might see it please?

On Ancestry UK in Service Records.Details from attestation,medical,postings etc.

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  • 2 years later...

Hello

 

I posted the message below a couple of years since about my great uncles who were both killed in WW1. I have recently discovered this photograph and am sure, because of where it was discovered, that it must be a family member. All I know of my relatives is what is stated below. Could this man, with REMD on the saddle, possibly be either of them?

 

Thank you to anyone who may be able to help.

 

"I always knew that my maternal grandmother lost two brothers in WW1 but I have only just discovered their names.

Sergeant Fred Mansley was in the 9th Battalion of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment and was killed on the 14th January 1916 and was buried at Bailleul Communal Cemetery Extension, Nord.

His brother, born in 1894, was Private William Mansley and died in April 1918. William was in the 1st Battalion in the same regiment and is named on the Loos Memorial

I am very excited to have discovered this much but, and maybe it's a shot in the dark, but does anyone happen to know any more about these two brothers?"

 

 

img017.jpg

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Thanks for that, Andy.

 

Excuse my ignorance but if this man is a Royal Engineer could he be in either the 1st or 9th Battalions of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment as my great uncles were?

 

Regards.

 

David

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27 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Thanks for that, Andy.

 

Excuse my ignorance but if this man is a Royal Engineer could he be in either the 1st or 9th Battalions of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment as my great uncles were?

 

Regards.

 

David

In theory a man could be moved between units as the army required.  A look at the service details, service numbers etc should help.

 

Craig

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The medal index cards for Fred and John Mansley show only [overseas] service with Loyal North Lancs. Regt.

 

Looking at the 1891 census, at 19, Manchester Road, Leigh, Lancs., they had brothers, John born about 1882 and Thomas born about 1885. In 1911 Fred born about 1890 and William born about 1894 were living with a sister and their widowed father at 131, Folds Road, Bolton. Their deceased mother's name was Emily.

 

So could the photo be of one of their brothers, either Thomas or John?

 

A medal index card exists for a Thomas Mansley, Driver (T)7054 later 432104, Royal Engineers (Driver would suggest working with horses). There is also a Silver War Badge Card for a J. Mansley (No Christian name given), Pte. 434446, 20th T.F. Dep. Royal Engineers, enlisted 28 February 1916 and discharged 28 may 1919, no overseas service [no medals], cause of discharge sickness.

 

Edit: Without going into a lot of detail now, it is possible that John Mansley served as 7502 Lancashire Fusiliers. A service record exists on findmypast. A John  Mansley, giving his age as 18 years and 11 months, enlisted in 1899, his father was Richard Mansley, and he also gave his brother Thomas as next of kin, along with his stepmother, whose name he gave as Anne Helen. It needs more detailed research, or family knowledge, to establish if this was John Mansley, brother of Thomas, Fred, and William. If it is then it is possible that the mounted Royal Engineer is Thomas Mansley. Needs fuller and more detailed research than postings on a forum, I think - connections and conclusions can start to get a bit tenuous.

 

Edited by HarryBrook
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Thank you, Harry. This is very kind of you.

 

I'll give just a brief reply. Clearly what is of interest to me isn't necessarily to anyone else.

 

Other than being born in 1886 I knew nothing of Thomas. What you suggest sounds like a possibility so I'll try and look more into him further. It appears as though John was a regular soldier about whom I know even less. The soldier in the photograph carries the rank only of a private. Wouldn't one expect a long serving regular soldier to have had the odd promotion?

 

Thank you again.

 

David

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Fred"s death is notified in the Roll of Honour in the Lancashire Evening Post 29/1/1916. Says Died of Wounds.

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It would not be at all unusual for a man to serve an entire, long, military career as a Private soldier.

 

I have to correct something in post #10, the mother of Fred and William Mansley was Emma, not Emily as I stated. Apologies.

 

Richard Mansley, the father, married Emma Moores Taylor in 1881 quarter 1 in the Leigh, Lancashire District. She died in 1894 aged 33 years, and Richard Mansley remarried to Ellen Baldwin in the Leigh, Lancashire District in 1895 quarter 4, and she died in the Bolton District in 1909 aged 53 years.

 

A family tree on ancestry states that John Mansley, born 1882, was Pte. 7502 Lancashire Fusiliers, and additionally gives his name as John Moores Manley.

 

The full list of children is:- John [Moores] Manley born 1882 quarter 4, Thomas born 1886 quarter 1, Sarah born 1887 quarter 3, Fred born 1890 quarter 1, Maria Ellen born 1892 quarter 2, and William born 1893 quarter 4, all Leigh, Lancashire District.

 

In the 1901 census Thomas, Sarah, Maria Ellen, and William were living with their aunt and uncle, Joseph and Mary Ann Whittle at 7, Clarence St., Leigh. Sarah was working as a cotton weaver, and Thomas was a "pony driver down coal pit". Fred Manley and his grandmother Rachel were living at 10, Clarence St., Leigh with a William and Maria Ellen Collier, their relationship was given as "Relations". John Manley not found in the census as he was serving in South Africa in the Boer War. Parents Richard and Emma Manley also not found in the 1901 census.

 

In the 1911 census Thomas was still living with his uncle and aunt at 7, Clarence St. Leigh, he was then 25, single, and working as a coal miner (hewer). Fred and William were living with their widowed father and sister Maria Ellen at 131, Folds Road, Bolton. Fred's occupation was "spindle turner, and William's was "spindle grinder".   

 

Going back to the photo of the Royal Engineers horseman, my guess is, that if it is one of the brothers, it is Thomas, and possibly the Driver, Royal Engineers service numbers as in post #10. Unfortunately this speculative as there is no surviving service record for him.     

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I am just about the same place as my esteemed colleague

 

 A bit of extra detail and confirmation really

The Lanc Fus man according to the docs married a Jessie Boyes on 24/12/1910 in Bedford, Lancs. The marriage was witnessed by Robert Boyes and Sarah Moores Mansley. By the time this was filled in he had 2 children John Moores Mansley (b 23/4/12) and Richard Moores Mansley (b 24/8/13). Both born in Lee. So we can deduce that "Moores" is being used as a standard second name in the family. So linking back to the boys mother Emma Moores Taylor

In 1911 census there is a John Moores Mansley living 30 Ellesmere Street, Leigh. He is there with Jessie and Jessie's sister brother and mother. At that time the service docs indicate he is in the reserve. The 1939 register has John M Mansley born 14/11/1882 living with Jessie Mansley (b 31/8/1899) living at 3 Oxford St, Leigh His occupation in 1939 is "Blacksmith 100 disabled". The 1911 census show him as a "Blacksmith striker". I have not found a 1901 census record for him yet. .

I do not think he was in S Africa in the Boer War in 1901. The docs indicate he was in Malta 6/2/1900 to 18/3/1902. He was not in S Africa until late 1902. 

I have also found a burial record for Ellen Mansley in Jan 1910 giving the 131 Folds Road, Bolton address. Confusingly there is 1902 marriage in Bolton again for a Richard Mansley in 1Q 1902. One of the 2 brides on that page is called Ellen Ormston. Yet to go any further with that one. So did he marry again, is the 1895 record correct, or did he have a predilection for woman called Ellen.

 

There is a death reg record for a John Mansley in Dec 1968 in Leigh. That man is born abt 1882. Looks likely to be him. His son John Moores Mansley died in Leigh on 21/3/1983. There is a baptism record for him dated 19th May 1912

So plenty of work for DavidM to do to sort this out. 

Edited by Mark1959
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I am indebted to all of you who have made great efforts to provide information of my family. Some of all this I knew but some of the extra detail is invaluable to me and I thank you. I knew from my mum that my grandma, Maria Ellen, had lost two brothers in the war but, until recently, knew nothing of two other siblings, John and Thomas. I would never have considered that the mounted soldier could have been Thomas. Now I have another avenue that I can investigate.

 

Thank you all again.

 

David

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