Woodsc Posted 10 November , 2014 Share Posted 10 November , 2014 Hi All Wondered if anyone could please clarify some information I have I am looking for information on a soldier who served with the Coldstream Guards and later with the Military Foot Police ~ His name was Joseph Richard Roberts original service number was 4573 and later P4997 (MFP). He served originally in the 3rd Battalion Coldstream Guards entering the theatre of war 24/8/1914~ died 27th November 1918 ~ I have his MIC and CWGC info but am unable to source other information at this time. Could anyone clarify when he transferred to the MFP would he have still served within the Coldstream Guards or was the MFP a separate unit?? If anyone can help with any information or direct me to other sources of info it would be appreciated Hope someone can help Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 November , 2014 Share Posted 10 November , 2014 trans 1.10.16 MFP and Coldstream Guards are diff units will see if I have anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 November , 2014 Share Posted 10 November , 2014 my notes on enlistment for this number block are sketchy and full of wild cards - he joined likely between November 1901 - March 1902 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 November , 2014 Share Posted 10 November , 2014 how do you know he was 3rd Btn ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 November , 2014 Share Posted 10 November , 2014 little bit more http://www.corpsofmilitarypolice.org/soldier/4898/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 10 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2014 how do you know he was 3rd Btn ? Hi Coldstreamer I have been told there is a personal letter which references he was serving with L/Cpl Oliver Brook VC who I believe was in the 3rd battalion. In saying that Oliver Brooks went out 12/8/1914 ~ my man went out 24/8/1914 Could I be wrong to presume he was in the 3rd?? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 10 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2014 my notes on enlistment for this number block are sketchy and full of wild cards - he joined likely between November 1901 - March 1902 I'm pretty sure he enlisted in February 1902 ~ looking at the Silver War Badge Rolls and regiment numbers close to his Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 November , 2014 Share Posted 10 November , 2014 Brooks was 3rd when getting the VC but don't know if that was the only btn he served in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 10 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2014 Brooks was 3rd when getting the VC but don't know if that was the only btn he served in Many thanks for taking the time to reply and providing information much appreciated Could I just confirm re your first reply ~ you reference 'trans 1.10.16' are you saying he transferred from Coldstream to MFP on that date?? If that is correct I can download the War Diaries presuming he was in the 3rd and track him from going overseas to that date Obviously you are up to speed on the Coldstream Guards have you any views relating to my man taking into consideration the dates while serving with CG?? Thank you Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 11 November , 2014 Share Posted 11 November , 2014 correct yes his date of transfer - very few other ranks get a mention in the war diary - you might find a mention as he was deocrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 11 November , 2014 Share Posted 11 November , 2014 his date of entry would suggest that he was on reserve rather than a full time soldier also, trans to MFP would suggest in the Police after he had done his time - many Guardsmen served in the Police due to the height requirement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 11 November , 2014 Share Posted 11 November , 2014 Hi, If he went to BEF 24th Aug 1914 he was likely a first line reinforcement . Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 11 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2014 correct yes his date of transfer - very few other ranks get a mention in the war diary - you might find a mention as he was decorated Decorated!! ~ can you please confirm what decoration he received I'm only aware he received 1914 star, bwm, vm Thank You Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 11 November , 2014 Share Posted 11 November , 2014 Having recently done a bit of work on the Gloucestershire Constabulary memorial, I'm in full agreement with Coldstreamer. My guess would be that he was a Guardsman before the war, left the army and joined the police force and was then recalled. Quite a few of the Gloucestershire officers either joined the MFP directly or later transferred from other units to them or the MMP - which would be a natural move. As the war went on and the initial recruitment rush had died down, the army was quite keen to put people where they could be of most use. This may be a long shot, but if you know where he lived it may be worth looking at the Police Committee minutes for that area. The Gloucestershire ones name most of the men who left the force to join up and gives details of where they were stationed. The local newspapers also carried the names of the officers who were recalled at the beginning of the war. Police officers were a bit more in the press in those days, and most of the Gloucestershire ones appear in the newspapers regularly, giving evidence in court even for things as mundane as not having lights on a bike! The newspapers were obviously short of material in those days! Again, if you know the town he lived in, you could try the census - most police officers lived in police houses or lodged and gave their occupation on the census. That would confirm if he was a police officer before joining. If he was killed, he will probably appear on the local police force memorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 11 November , 2014 Share Posted 11 November , 2014 Hull Daily Mail 04/12/18: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 11 November , 2014 Share Posted 11 November , 2014 Decorated!! ~ can you please confirm what decoration he received I'm only aware he received 1914 star, bwm, vm Thank You Colin[/quote Sorry, got my wires crossed with another thread - sorry to dash your hopes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 11 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2014 Hull Daily Mail 04/12/18: I can't believe you have come up with this information ~ so informative filling gaps in my research ~ thank you very much I'll look into trying to find Police Committee minutes as you have suggested now I know some of the background Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 11 November , 2014 Share Posted 11 November , 2014 I did have a quick look to see if his wounding came up in the newspaper - no luck. That doesn't mean it's not there - I only had time for a quick look. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 12 November , 2014 Share Posted 12 November , 2014 I have the 3rd btn roll of wounded in 1914 - will try to look through it on the off chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 12 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 November , 2014 I did have a quick look to see if his wounding came up in the newspaper - no luck. That doesn't mean it's not there - I only had time for a quick look. Bob. Hi Bob Am I able to access the newspaper to check any further info or do you have to subscribe etc? Regards..Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 12 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 November , 2014 I have the 3rd btn roll of wounded in 1914 - will try to look through it on the off chance Hi Coldstreamer In view of the newspaper cutting he may have been wounded 1915/16 and then transferred into MFP as you indicated 1/10/1916 ~ what do you think?? Regards..Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 12 November , 2014 Share Posted 12 November , 2014 couldn't see him you can search The Times for wounded lists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 12 November , 2014 Share Posted 12 November , 2014 Hi Coldstreamer In view of the newspaper cutting he may have been wounded 1915/16 and then transferred into MFP as you indicated 1/10/1916 ~ what do you think?? Regards..Colin could only speculate sorry - could have been wounded any time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 12 November , 2014 Share Posted 12 November , 2014 Colin, This is the pay site I use. I expect there are others: http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk The problem is that whilst I know what newspapers to look out for in my local area, I'm not at all familiar with those in the Grimsby area. Not all of them, of course, have been scanned and uploaded onto the site, so there may be a major local newspaper that would be likely to name him that's missing. I've tried various combinations of searches - "Roberts + Coldstream" and "Roberts + Grimsby" for example, without any success except the one you know about. "PC Roberts + Grimsby" brings up a few hits for court cases before the war, but we can't be sure it's the same PC Roberts. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsc Posted 14 November , 2014 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2014 Colin, This is the pay site I use. I expect there are others: http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk The problem is that whilst I know what newspapers to look out for in my local area, I'm not at all familiar with those in the Grimsby area. Not all of them, of course, have been scanned and uploaded onto the site, so there may be a major local newspaper that would be likely to name him that's missing. I've tried various combinations of searches - "Roberts + Coldstream" and "Roberts + Grimsby" for example, without any success except the one you know about. "PC Roberts + Grimsby" brings up a few hits for court cases before the war, but we can't be sure it's the same PC Roberts. Bob. Colin, This is the pay site I use. I expect there are others: http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk The problem is that whilst I know what newspapers to look out for in my local area, I'm not at all familiar with those in the Grimsby area. Not all of them, of course, have been scanned and uploaded onto the site, so there may be a major local newspaper that would be likely to name him that's missing. I've tried various combinations of searches - "Roberts + Coldstream" and "Roberts + Grimsby" for example, without any success except the one you know about. "PC Roberts + Grimsby" brings up a few hits for court cases before the war, but we can't be sure it's the same PC Roberts. Bob. Hi Bob Thanks for all your help and advice it's been a great help Regards..Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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