Guest Simon Bull Posted 31 October , 2004 Share Posted 31 October , 2004 The latest edition of the WFA Bulletin reports that the Hohenzollern Redoubt is under threat from landfill.Can any local Pals(1) Provide further information.(2) Suggest whom we might contact to oppose this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 31 October , 2004 Share Posted 31 October , 2004 Suggest whom we might contact to oppose this? Hello Simon Firstly I have to say that I have an interest in the Hohenzollerb Redoubt as it was there that my Great Grandfather was KIA on 1st October 1915. He has no known grave and may well still lie where he fell. Having said that, what makes you think that there is anything there that is worth preserving? The site of the Redoubt is marked only by a small copse of scrub oak on one side and a small dump on the other. It is not an inspiring spot. As long as any remains that are found are treat with due respect then fair enough. As far as I am aware the locals have been using the spot as a dump for many years in any case. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 31 October , 2004 Share Posted 31 October , 2004 The Redoubt from what would have been Fosse Trench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 31 October , 2004 Share Posted 31 October , 2004 I too read this and was somewhat dismayed. Two things sprang to mind; a shame that such an important site should be used in this way and secondly what on earth they would uncover by digging an enormous hole in that area. I am sure there are plenty of alternative sites that could be found. Have to agree with Andy on one point - last time I was there it did indeed appear to be acting as an un-official dump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 what on earth they would uncover by digging an enormous hole in that area. I am sure there are plenty of alternative sites that could be found. These are the two thoughts that I had. I would suggest that very careful excavation would have to be done before any industrial activity takes place as I am sure that large numbers of bodies are bound to be located around the redoubt site. What perplexes me more is the choice of the site in the first place. The access to it is tight to say the least with a one track road leading from Auchy to Vermelles and very narrow suburban roads if you approach the redoubt from the other direction. To me much more suitable sites with much better access exist along the Hulloch - Loos road. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 I must admit I was dismayed when I read this in the WFA Bulletin. It is a shame that a site with such significance as the Hohenzollern Redoubt is being considered for such treatment. Surely it would be more profitable to develop the visitor potential of the site, like with Lochnagar Crater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 Surely it would be more profitable to develop the visitor potential of the site, like with Lochnagar Crater I guess the problem is that like Lochnagar there is no actual commercial value to the Redoubt. Remember it took an Englishman to buy Lochnagar in order to save it from almost certain disappearance. Even after countless visits to the crater it still has the power to impress, the same cannot be said for the redoubt. Sure, to us Great War enthusiasts it has significant historical importance but to Joe Public it is not an astonishingly impressive hole in the ground like Lochnagar but simply a few banks of earth in the middle of a field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 1 November , 2004 Share Posted 1 November , 2004 I guess the problem is that like Lochnagar there is no actual commercial value to the Redoubt. Remember it took an Englishman to buy Lochnagar in order to save it from almost certain disappearance. Sadly Giles this is only too true! Unless it has flashing lights, thundering sound effects and "smells", "interactive zones" and a gift shop at the end of it, no one is interested nowadays. Luckily there are people like Richard Dunning who have the means and the enthusiasm to preserve what could be so easily lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Robins Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 I have visited the Hohenzollern many times and always find an imense sense of history attached to the place and surrounding fields. Over the years I have noticed the farmers very gradually refilling the mine craters with assorted debris/rubbish. Certainly the area adjacent to Quarry Cemetery has been refilled over the last couple of years, with everything including the kitchen sink which at the time I thought to be a shame. There is no doubt the Redoubt will go the same way without intervention, although the local Chasse do use the place fairly intensively during the autumn months. I would be surprised if they'd want to lose the overgrown habitat protecting the game. There are local historical organisations, notably at Loos village who could exert pressure and influence the local community to retain this historic site. Perhaps it should be remembered that the line hardly moved here over the entire war and it therfore offers a fantastic opportunity (as it stands at present) to preserve a fairly unique relic. If sites of remembrance can be created at Fromelles, Le Hamel ,Lochnagar etc, then why not here? Let's not lose it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 2 November , 2004 Share Posted 2 November , 2004 Maybe just a bit of brainstorming, but what if the acre or so surrounding redoubt were reconstructed to look like it did durning the war. Maybe a few interpretive signs to explain its importance. The location is out of the way, so probably not going to attract those not already on their way to see it specifically. I'd love to tackle a project like that. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simon Bull Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 Having said that, what makes you think that there is anything there that is worth preserving? The site of the Redoubt is marked only by a small copse of scrub oak on one side and a small dump on the other. It is not an inspiring spot. Well I explored at Easter and there is a massive hole which I presume formed a part of the Redoubt which would seem to be of interest. I well appreciate that one cannot preserve every bit of the Western Front, but I would have thought that this is a pretty significant location. It is a shame that more is not made of it - signs and information boards etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 It is a shame that more is not made of it - signs and information boards etc. I certainly agree that it is a very interesting place on two levels, at least for my family. The problem with signs and information boards etc is that you, I and anyone else who visits the place are probably trespassing. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 As long as there are people interested in the war there will always be people trespassing to see the site. The only question is in what numbers. I would think that if the owner of the property were approached with a real plan to preserve and maintain the site and a reasonable access route, they would probably prefer the interest and approach more than what is currently going on. I would think.... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 4 November , 2004 Share Posted 4 November , 2004 As long as there are people interested in the war there will always be people trespassing to see the site. Absolutely. I've snuck up a couple of times with no real problems other than trying to avoid what can only be described as a half bear half dog guarding the track up to the Redoubt. A packet of extra strong mints always sorts him out though. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain mchenry Posted 5 November , 2004 Share Posted 5 November , 2004 Andy, The farm on your left side as you walk the track to the Redoubt, that dog scared the living s**t out of me earlier this year. Half dog/half bear, a perfect description! As I walked out to the redoubt a chapon a tractor stopped and spoke to me in French. I just waved my copy of "Battleground Europe - Loos - Hohenzollern Redoubt at him and smiled. He pointed to the redoubt and wished me a "Bon Journee." Friendly chap. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 5 November , 2004 Share Posted 5 November , 2004 Hello Iain So you've met "The Hound of Auchy Le Mines" as well. It is the most terrifying dog that I have ever seen. It looks like some mutant variant of a Belgian Sheepdog or Alsatian. Luckily, the last time I went I had a very successful doggie decoy system, it is called "my mate Bob" (you met him in the shell hole). He is very short sighted and not very quick on his pins. All I did was shout, "dog, run" and we set off across the muddy track with me in full knowledge that "the beast" would have him before it got anywhere near me. Always best to have a slow friend in these circumstances. On a more serious note, I have a contact who lives in Auchy and is an expert on the Redoubt. I will ask him what plans, if any, lay in wait for the place. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy 1 Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 there is a piece about this very subject on the thisislincolnshire.co.uk website. apparently it is not an official wargrave so a local land owner is allowing people to tip rubbish there. its disgusting. regards andy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 Andy1 - Thanks for the web site. Here are the specific articles for other pals to read. It appears that there some efforts to save the site, but it also doesn't seem that the effort has much energy. Unless there is more happening 'on the ground' that someone there could let us in on. I still think it would be a great project to save the area. Andy The Forgotten Heroes - http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displa...=InternalSearch Final Act of Courage - http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displa...=InternalSearch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 Thanks Andy and Andy1 for the links to these articles. It is very interesting to see that locals are objecting to the dumping, I wonder who ultimately gave permission? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 Following the example set by our Lincolnshire friends, I have contacted the main local newspapers and BBC Local Radio stations in my home county, Staffordshire, to see if they would be interested in running a piece on what is happening with regard to the Hohenzollern Redoubt. I will notify the forum of any responses I get. I agree with Max that it is interesting to see that some of the people who live in Auchy are not happy with these plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 I wonder who ultimately gave permission? Andy (a name perhaps more popular than Tim).... It maybe a situation where no one gave permission, but noone objected either..... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewThornton Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 Just had a call from the "Express and Star" in Wolverhampton and the "Burton Mail" in Burton-upon-Trent and they are interested in running a piece on the Hohenzollern Redoubt and what may be happening to it. If nothing else it may increase awareness. I will let the forum know when the article is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester terrier Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 The front page of todays Leicester Mercurycovers the redout story. Inside they have a two page spread about it. Apparently ths local mayor Jean Clarisse gave permission to use the land for a tip. Theres a photograph of a local historian holding a jaw bone and rib bone found on the site. His name is Jean Luc Gloriant, also interviewed is Isabelle Pilarowski a local museum curator. Tomorrow they are publishing a letter in french to send to the mayor. The Mercury can be contacted at newsdesk@leicestermercury.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy 1 Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 there's a bit more about it on the liecester mercury website. it seems the mayor's wife can't understand what all the fuss is about. i wonder what she would do if we went to verdun and started digging up there war dead. andy i wouldn't do this by the way i have more respect for the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham-McAdam Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 Today's Lincolnshire Echo (the paper version of the website above), like the Mercury has a front page spread - 'The Forgotten Heroes' and a double inside 'Is this any way to treat our brave boys' There were a lot of Lincolns at Loos, so yes, they feel strongly about it all. I guess they've been looking for a 'week of 11.11' story and have found the strongest one for years. I could scan it in if anyone is very keen, but I guess its all on the website, though the paper has a list of Gainsborough men at Loos which might be of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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