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Remembered Today:

no cwgc headstone


BIFFO
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what do you do who, do you tell if you have a casualty who dow in uk who is buried in uk who has no marker of any kind do I tell cwgc ?
Biff :(:poppy:

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pm sent :thumbsup:

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Cwgc website
dav_zps78fa495e.jpg

so he is on their casualty list we asked the warden had anything been taken away for repair he said it hadn't

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CWGC list 10 casualties in that churchyard. Were the others evident? Some obviously might be private family memorials not CWGC headstones. I take it that you did check for that?

Keith

Edit - see this from CWGC - I'm not sure of the codes, but I would take them to mean a private memorial.

post-21979-0-84569800-1415203928_thumb.j

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His headstone was never ordered from the stonemason by the IWGC. I've sent Biffo the details. I would think there is a case for applying t have one erected.

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noncwgc_zps7767f27f.jpg

thanks you chaps once again gwf turns up trumps

Keith today we did as norm looked for cwgc shaped headstones found lots but not our Australian pal, also did this on Monday looking for another ozzie in a very large cemetery again found lots of cwgc headstones but not the one we were looking for, so we went back yesterday and found it, bit silly really as it has a Australian flag about 2ft sq stuck next to it ,ah theres non so blind that cannot see.

Chris I will write to cwgc and see what they say

Biff :thumbsup::poppy:

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I think you'll find that where there is a private headstone in good repair the CWGC regard that as acceptable and proper commemoration, and only step in if the private one is in poor repair, and that after trying to trace and contact the family. I made the same error a few years ago, quartering a churchyard about four times before someone pointed out the private headstone to me.

Keith

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I'm fairly sure that Keith's summary represents the true state of affairs. It is probably the best solution anyway.

Ron

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Biffo,

Just replied to your message but can see you have resolved the matter. I think the back of the headstone has seen better times. Close to this is a small headstone of a soldier who died in the early 1920's that I get impression was caused by not recovering from the war in one way or another.

Glad you found him. I do try to go each Anzac Sunday and lay a small cross.

Rgds

Andy

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once again thank you chaps

Keith having delved a bit deeper this chap is in a private plot along side his aunt ? his cousin also unfortunately kia and buried in France, has a mention on the headstone, some one at the time informed the Australian government about NS Reglins death who refused to pay for the funeral or a headstone for some reason :poppy: ,so I suppose his relations couldn't leave the poor bu== and gave him a descent send off.

I have been in touch with a warden at holy cross and asked does he want me to inform cwgc, or just let it be

Biff :thumbsup:

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As it is listed on CWGC you can take it that they are aware, and that on their periodic inspections of the other CWGC stones in the churchyard they will review the condition of the headstone.

Keith

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Biff,

I concur with Keith, in that his headstone meets all the criteria as far as the CWGC are concerned.

On your other point about the Australian government not retrospectively meeting the expense for his headstone etc, it is not as cut and dried as that. The letter in his file is dated 1918. When he died in 1916, had his family not arranged for his funeral and burial in a private plot and having died in a military hospital, in all likelihood, he would have been buried in a common grave at the authorities expense. He would possibly have been afforded a military funeral, or at least a military attendance. The common grave may have been specifically for military burials, but it was not uncommon for military and civilian burials to be mixed.

I'm not sure of the exact date, but in early 1917, mainly due to Australian pressure, the British government agreed to adopt the practice of single graves for all Dominion military deaths in the UK. The expense was to be borne by the British authorities. Even after this time, a family could still exercise their right to a private funeral / grave, but would have to pay for it. Following the cessation of hostilities, Dominion servicemen in common graves were, where possible, exhumed and reburied in single graves and given a CWGC headstone, as part of the IWGC / CWGC remit. Private graves, by their very nature, were outside of this process, except in one case I know, where an over-enthusiastic Australian Graves Service inadvertently had a soldier exhumed from a private grave and reburied in the Australian Plot. The AGS had to refund his family the costs of the original plot.

Phil

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I have received a reply form the warden who says he (not the warden)had gsw received in France being moved to naps bury war hospital st Albans there he contacted pneumonia and unfortunately died, his aunt had him brought to Daventry at her expense where he received a full military funeral, I do not know who arranged this or what regiment, I will write to cwgc and see what they say, as to the state of the headstone I cannot say as we never found it :doh::poppy:

Biff

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A little bit of extra info from the Northampton Mercury of Friday 08 September 1916. Hope I get this right ages since I posted though I do try to read regularly - and sorry it's in two bits

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post-16016-0-76897500-1415340528_thumb.j

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now your a top man esskay

:poppy:

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grave_zps01e080af.jpg

what can I say Phil other than thank you, :thumbsup:
just goes to show what we could have found out about all British ww1 soldiers had that naughty German pilot not dropped his bombs on NA :w00t:

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