Mitchell, 7th Bn. R. Sussex Regt.

[JMB1943]

My grandmother's brother,

Henry John Mitchell, Pte., #4207; G/16053, 7th Bn. RSR was KiA, 05-Apr-1918 in France (CWGC; Remembrance Card in family papers),

however, there is also a.....

James Frederick Mitchell, Pte, G/16053, 7th Bn. RSR was KiA, 05-Apr-1918 in France (History of 7th Bn. RSR).

The appearances (+) and non-appearances (-) of these two men in sources available to me are summarized below.

SOURCE H.J.M. J.F.M.

1 + -

2 - +

3 - +

4 + -

1) CWGC; 2) SDGW; 3) History of 7th Bn. RSR; 4) MIC

The same regimental number, the same battalion, same date of death and the mutual exclusivity of their +/- listings indicates that they are one and the same man.

Henry John did have an older brother, James Frederick; this suggests that he possibly enlisted under his brother's name. But if that is the case, how did the two different names appear in official sources ????

Also, why would HJM have been re-numbered from #4207 to #G/16053, while remaining in the same regiment ?

Regards,

JMB

[mandy hall]

Hello JMB

I don't know the answer to your question. Below is a photo from The Royal Sussex Regimental Chapel in Chichester Cathedral showing him being recorded as J F Mitchell

http://www.royalsussex.org.uk/RSLHG_St%20George's%20Chapel.htm

Mandy

[JMB1943]

Hello Mandy,

I was afraid that my post had not caught your eye----many thanks for the photo.

A poster on another website did a look-up of the Medal Roll E/2/101 B7, Page: 1287, (from MIC of HJM) and found....

"From the UK WW1 Service Medal & Award Rolls :

G/16053 Henry John Mitchell . Previous Units and Regimental Numbers : 4207 2/4th Royal Sussex
G/16053 13th Royal Sussex ; G/16053 7th Royal Sussex

Nothing listed for James Frederick Mitchell."

This at least answers the 4207/16503 issue, but unfortunately does not resolve anything else. I have read that SDGW was compiled by the War Office from returns submitted by the regiments, so that any error in the 7th RSR History would have been carried forward.

Regards,

JMB

[Phil Evans]

JMB,

It is certainly a possible scenario.

Do you know their respective dates of birth?

The family obviously returned the Final Verification Form to the IWGC, for all their details to be on the register. SDGW was published in 1921, but must have taken some time to compile. The medal roll is dated June 1920.

Phil

[IPT]

I think you can place Henry John's enlistment into the 2/4th at 22nd March 1916, which probably rules out age as an issue.

[Phil Evans]

While I've got this lot to hand, am I on the right track with the family?

I think I have the correct family in the 1901 Census, at 29 St George's Road, Hastings

RG13; Piece 866; Folio 166; Page 39.

From FreeBMD, the following birth registrations seem to match:

September Quarter 1891

MITCHELL, James Frederick

Hastings 2b 18

September Quarter 1895

MITCHELL, Henry John

Hastings 2b 20

The interesting bit is this record I found: ADM 188/596/18474 (Royal Naval Air Service)

MITCHELL, James Frederick

The above man's RAF service number became 218474. See AIR 79/1966/218474.

The problem is that when I track him back to his RNVR service (ADM 339/1/24965), he becomes plain James Mitchell and gives his father as Fred Mitchell. His wife's name, Kate, tallies though and there are no other James Mitchell births in Hastings in the period 1899 to 1892 inclusive.

What a difficult family.

Phil

Edit: The father's address (17 Russell Street) on James' RNVR record ties in with Henry and his father on the 1911 Census. (RG14PN4739 RG78PN203 RD69 SD2 ED9 SN197)

Edited 9 November , 2014 by Phil Evans

[JMB1943]

IPT---is the enlistment date from the "4207" number ?

Phil,

1. The 1901 Census entry is correct.

2. The 1911 Census entry is correct.

3. The problem is that when I track him back to his RNVR service (ADM 339/1/24965), he becomes plain James Mitchell and gives his father as Fred Mitchell. His wife's name, Kate, tallies though and there are no other James Mitchell births in Hastings in the period 1899 to 1892 inclusive.

The wife of James T. Mitchell (father) was Alice Emma.

The wife of James F. Mitchell (son) was Beatrix Irene, but m. 1922. Was she a second wife ?????

Because of the father as Fred Mitchell and wife as Kate, I would have said that you have a different James Mitchell.....BUT the RNVR record gives the correct home address.........

4. I am unable to locate James F. in the 1911 Census.

Regards,

JMB

[IPT]

IPT---is the enlistment date from the "4207" number ?

JMB

Yes, I found a couple of examples;

4205 Albert Anthony Glyde attested 12/2/1916 at Horsham and joined 2/4th Sussex on 22/3/1916.

4206 Oliver Charles King attested 11/2/1916 at Horsham and joined 2/4th Sussex on 22/3/1916.