3rd Derby Regiment

[loujn]

Apologies before I ask this question.... it is Pre WW1 and I know that this forum is "the Great War Forum". But I know how knowledgeable you all are!

I am looking at a soldiers service who died in WW1 - but he had been previously serving with the 3rd Derby Regiment. He joined in 1901 for 6 years.

I have googled the 3rd Derbys and cant really find any information on their whereabouts etc for that period - I only seem to get results for WW1 period.

Can anyone suggest any websites that I can look at or tell me any background on this regiment please?

Thank you in advance

Louise

[ss002d6252]

What was his name and number ?

6 years would indicate a special reservist - effectively they trained for 6 months or so as a regular soldier and then went in to a reserve capacity where they would be called up only if required.

Craig

[loujn]

His name was Frederick William Musgrove.

I have his service record off of Find My Past for his pre WW1 service - he joined up on 22nd August 1901 for 6 years. He was private 8524.

I would like to find out what or where he may have been stationed during this time and had hoped to get some details when I googled 3rd Derbys Regiment - but all of the results were for WW1 time scale.

He served with the KOYLI during WW1 and was killed in action 100 years ago today 31st October 1914. His service records don't exist for this service unfortunately but I have his medal card. He was private 3/169 of the 2nd Battalion KOYLI.

I have the war diaries also for this time period so I can build up a picture of his brief service during WW1 but I would like to know more about 1901 - 1907 if possible.

thanks

Louise

www.fallenheroesww1.blogspot.com

[Guest]

In 1901 the 3rd Derbyshires were a Militia battalion. In the Haldane Reforms of 1907 (effective on 1st April 1908) the Militia Battalion became the 3rd (Special Reserve) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regt). The transition from Militia to Special Reserve was not compulsory and thousands declined to make the serve under the new terms.

The 3rd Milita Bn, 4th Militia Bn and 5th Militia Bn merged during the Haldane Reforms to form the 3rd (Special Reserve) Bn Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regt). The Militia would likely have sent volunteers to South Africa, although the 3rd (SR) Bn does not have South Africa as a battle honour. The 3rd Milita Battalion was formed in 1900 from the 1st and 2nd Derbyshire Militia. If you go back further they were the Chatsworth Rifles.

From his KOYLI number it is clear he joined the 3rd Special Reserve battalion of the KOYLI as denoted by the 3/prefix. Given his low number 169 It suggests he was an early enlistment in 1908. This might suggest he changed units during the Haldane reforms either due to boundary changes or his personal circumstances. There are examples of county regiments being able to recruit in neighbouring counties.

Given he disembarked on 19th Sep 1914, this effectively confirms he had served for some time as the KOYLI was fairly flush with Reservists. The KOYLI was annihilated at Le Cateau on 26th Aug 1914 which accelerated the draw-down of reservists as reinforcements to rebuild the battalion.... including your forbear.

North Derbyshire and South Yorkshire have close ties. I have relatives that served in the Sherwood Foresters and the KOYLI

MG

[ss002d6252]

I would like to find out what or where he may have been stationed during this time and had hoped to get some details when I googled 3rd Derbys Regiment - but all of the results were for WW1 time scale.

Special reservists, once they had done their initial training, were released to go home on the basis they were ready to be recalled as needed. They only went on active duty if they were recalled to the colours.

Craig

[loujn]

In 1901 the 3rd Derbyshires were a Militia battalion. In the Haldane Reforms of 1907 (effective on 1st April 1908) the Militia Battalion became the 3rd (Special Reserve) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regt). The transition from Militia to Special Reserve was not compulsory and thousands declined to make the serve under the new terms.

The 3rd Milita Bn, 4th Militia Bn and 5th Militia Bn merged during the Haldane Reforms to form the 3rd (Special Reserve) Bn Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regt). The Militia would likely have sent volunteers to South Africa, although the 3rd (SR) Bn does not have South Africa as a battle honour. The 3rd Milita Battalion was formed in 1900 from the 1st and 2nd Derbyshire Militia. If you go back further they were the Chatsworth Rifles.

From his KOYLI number it is clear he joined the 3rd Special Reserve battalion of the KOYLI as denoted by the 3/prefix. Given his low number 169 It suggests he was an early enlistment in 1908. This might suggest he changed units during the Haldane reforms either due to boundary changes or his personal circumstances. There are examples of county regiments being able to recruit in neighbouring counties.

Given he disembarked on 19th Sep 1914, this effectively confirms he had served for some time as the KOYLI was fairly flush with Reservists. The KOYLI was annihilated at Le Cateau on 26th Aug 1914 which accelerated the draw-down of reservists as reinforcements to rebuild the battalion.... including your forbear.

North Derbyshire and South Yorkshire have close ties. I have relatives that served in the Sherwood Foresters and the KOYLI

MG

Thank you Martin. That's a good explanation for me to follow. I had thought he might have left the army after his 6 years original sign up but as you say his number 169 indicates he had signed with the KOYLI as far back as 1908. So do you think he might have done his 6 years with the Derbys Reg and then transferred to the KOYLI because of the changes that were taking place regarding the Derbys Militia?

Assuming that was correct then if he joined the KOYLI in 1908 having served 6 years already with the Derbys Reg then how long would he have signed with the KOYLI? He is back home in 1911 on the census.

I am writing his story for the 100 year remembrance of your local church memorial. He is one of 85 men. I have a few that were KOYLI but different regiments and later death dates.

Thanks for you invaluable help! I am not very knowledgable on the actual nitty gritty of the army system I am afraid. But I am learning as I go through researching each man. Hopefully by the end of 85 story's told I should have got to grips with the basics! :-)

Special reservists, once they had done their initial training, were released to go home on the basis they were ready to be recalled as needed. They only went on active duty if they were recalled to the colours.

Craig

Thanks Craig. It's a shame I don't have a recall date from the service records. But never mind...

[ss002d6252]

Thanks Craig. It's a shame I don't have a recall date from the service records. But never mind...

Unless there was a break in his service then most if not all special reservists would have been re-called in the first few days of the war.

He was sent to France on 19 Sep 1914 which would suggest he re-called at the outbreak of war.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

Thank you Martin. That's a good explanation for me to follow. I had thought he might have left the army after his 6 years original sign up but as you say his number 169 indicates he had signed with the KOYLI as far back as 1908. So do you think he might have done his 6 years with the Derbys Reg and then transferred to the KOYLI because of the changes that were taking place regarding the Derbys Militia?

Assuming that was correct then if he joined the KOYLI in 1908 having served 6 years already with the Derbys Reg then how long would he have signed with the KOYLI? He is back home in 1911 on the census.

As a special reservist he would have always been at home unless he was either within his initial 6 month intensive training period, called up for active service or away at a training camp.

Craig