Canuck7542 Posted 13 October , 2014 Share Posted 13 October , 2014 I am trying to locate a map that shows the british trenches near Hooge in June 1915 around the time of the Battle of Bellewarde. I have been following the war diary of the 2nd Royal Rifles as part of tracing my great great uncle, Rfm Andrew Johnston 8856. The diary notes the battalion took up position in H1 and H2 near Hooge. I have come across maps that show numbered and lettered trenches, but have not found one that shows H1 or H2 in the Hooge area. My gr gr uncle was shot in the leg on June 26, which resulted in his discharge. It would be interesting to tie the location to the "2 OR" in the diary's entry. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 13 October , 2014 Share Posted 13 October , 2014 Try http://www.bellewaarde1915.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck7542 Posted 20 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2014 My apologies, the trenches mentioned in the war diary were "B8 and B9". I don't know how I got my letters and numbers mixed up and thought it was H1 and H2. I was also thinking it might be useful to see if there are any diagrams in the war diaries of the other battalions in the 3rd Division at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 20 October , 2014 Share Posted 20 October , 2014 From the Liverpool Scottish History June 1915.This area mainly has Y trenches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck7542 Posted 21 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2014 Thanks Ian The Red trenches in the map are the German lines. The single black line that runs through Railway and Y Woods and then turns right and just below Hooge is the British line. I suspect the y trenches are references for the battle on June 16. I did locate a map from January 1916 (I can't recall the Battalion) that showed a series of B and C trenches immediately to the southeast of Hooge. There was a B8 reference but no B9. I believe the trenches stayed fairly static during this but will need to do a little more research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 21 October , 2014 Share Posted 21 October , 2014 Our evidence is that the trench names in the Salient were fairly static during this period; certainly those in the region of St Eloi and Hill 60 to the south and south east of Ypres seemed to have recognised letting/numbering by Spring 1915. The printed Zillebeke trench map of August 1915 carries no numbers at all, simply showing the German trenches in red (as was the convention at that stage of the war). The 1:10000 map for March 1916 seems to show different numbering (and a rather more complex trench system). I have never thought that the numbers on the McGilchrist map had been produced just for the 16 June operation; that would seem impracticable.to my mind You mention the "2nd Royal Rifles"; what is the full name of this battalion? Do you know which brigade they were with - the Brigade or divisional diaries in the British National Archive (that should now be digitised) might help. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck7542 Posted 21 October , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2014 Thanks again Ian, I can't believe I made two mistakes on the same message. I should take more time for proof reading. The Battalion was the 2nd Royal Irish Rifles. At this time in 1915 they were part of the 3rd Division, 7th Brigade. I think they became part of the 25th Division in Oct/Nov of 1915. I have attached a link to a sketch map I found from a site posting the January 1916 war diary of 13th Middlesex Regiment the beginning of 1916 near Hooge. The website for the sketch map is http://13thmiddlesexww1.wordpress.com/home/january-1916/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcr13 Posted 3 January , 2015 Share Posted 3 January , 2015 Thanks Ian The Red trenches in the map are the German lines. The single black line that runs through Railway and Y Woods and then turns right and just below Hooge is the British line. I suspect the y trenches are references for the battle on June 16. I did locate a map from January 1916 (I can't recall the Battalion) that showed a series of B and C trenches immediately to the southeast of Hooge. There was a B8 reference but no B9. I believe the trenches stayed fairly static during this but will need to do a little more research. There are a couple of detailed sketch maps of the Hooge trenches in 8 Brigade's War Diary dating from September 1915. One sketch in the Appendix for September shows B trench being numbered from B1 (Sanctuary Wood) B2, B3, B4, then B7, B8, but no B9 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck7542 Posted 5 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2015 philcr13, Many thanks for the heads up and information to check the war diaries of the battalions in the other brigades in the 3rd division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 24 January , 2015 Share Posted 24 January , 2015 I am looking for a map of the British trenches in/near Sanctuary Wood from early May, 1915. According to the War Diary of the 2nd DCLI, they were number 1, 2 5 & 6. To the right, Trench number 1 linked somehow with a trench number 50. Do any of the maps referred to above show these trenches? Many thanks, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 29 January , 2015 Share Posted 29 January , 2015 Ken Lees, on 24 Jan 2015 - 11:22 AM, said: I am looking for a map of the British trenches in/near Sanctuary Wood from early May, 1915. According to the War Diary of the 2nd DCLI, they were number 1, 2 5 & 6. To the right, Trench number 1 linked somehow with a trench number 50. Do any of the maps referred to above show these trenches? Many thanks, Ken Ken, Have you tried the Maps in the National Library of Scotland? http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=10&lat=50.78743&lon=3.01572&layers=101464630 With their 'slider' feature (on the left side), you can overlay the map on a current Google map. Kindest Regards, Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcr13 Posted 7 February , 2015 Share Posted 7 February , 2015 I am looking for a map of the British trenches in/near Sanctuary Wood from early May, 1915. According to the War Diary of the 2nd DCLI, they were number 1, 2 5 & 6. To the right, Trench number 1 linked somehow with a trench number 50. Do any of the maps referred to above show these trenches? Many thanks, Ken Sorry for the late reply Ken, Yes, one sketch map in the 8 Bde War Diary Appendix for Sept '15 shows the trenches you mention. The numbers run from 50 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 to 12 where the trench becomes B1 etc. The National Archives have very thoughtfully copied this map upside down, presumably for added entertainment value! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain dubois Posted 12 February , 2015 Share Posted 12 February , 2015 Hi, About the Hooge trench map on McMaster's website; http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A70410 what is the significance of the numbers near each circle ?RegardsAlain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcr13 Posted 13 February , 2015 Share Posted 13 February , 2015 They're strong points denoted by the the last two numbers of the trench map grid reference Alain, So if we take point 84, just down the road from Hooge, it's full map reference would be 28.I.18.b.8.4. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain dubois Posted 13 February , 2015 Share Posted 13 February , 2015 Many Thanks Alain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 13 February , 2015 Share Posted 13 February , 2015 Phil is correct, the circled numbers are shortened map references. However they are not strong points: they are significant points which are usually trench junctions, so the front line trench is given as 84-76-68-48. Not all trench junctions, often where comm trenches join fighting trenches, are strong points. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcr13 Posted 13 February , 2015 Share Posted 13 February , 2015 I stand corrected! Cheers Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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