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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

WWII German 84/98 bayonet, 1944 3rd no mark? help


Guest needalittlehelp

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Guest needalittlehelp

In my father's possessions we find a German bayonet. He had it wrapped with a 1920 commercial luger and was stored in the back of his gun case. My Dad never left the place he was born and believe that these items came home with brother's who were in both World Wars. The luger is in perfect condition and had all matching serial numbers. The bayonet is a 84/98, 1944, third edition with what appears to be a bakelite handle (the reddish color one) and it is in perfect condition. Nice blue with no rust or signs of wear. The scabbard is discolored but does not show wear. Here is the part that I really need some help on! THERE ARE NOT MARKS OF ANY KIND ON EITHER THE KNIFE OR THE SCABBARD! Everything I find on the Net says that there should be some and I can find no evidence that marks have been removed. Can someone out there help me with this or give me someplace to go to find out what I have?? I can attach a photo if necessary but it looks exactly like the one's that I see posted. Much appreciated! A country gal in California. :(

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How do you know it's 1944 if there are no marks? Polite question that loses something in us not being face to face :)

If it is indeed 1944 the Bakelite grips will be very red with an easily distinguished grain. If the bakelite is more of a glossy red-brown then this is pre-war to early war depending on the maker.

The marks that you expect to see on a bayonet, eg maker name/code or waffenampts (the little eagle/swaz & #) were only applicable to Wehrmacht contracts. Polizei, SS, Postal authorities etc., were all commercial contracts which did not require the waffenampt stamp. This waffenampt was a quality control mark only and administered by the wehrmacht.

I have a 84/98 with wooden grip scales and magnificent bluing that is comparable to good quality firearms bluing such as Colt. On first inspection there appears to be no marking. However on the spine of the blade is the very feint impression of an eagle and on the underside where the sharpened edge squares just before the crossguard is a letter 'a'. It is most probably a police bayonet. Removing the grips will also probably reveal more markings that may help identify the maker, but please use the correct size screwdriver to avoid damage.

On a personal level I find these bayonets fascinating, a bayonet with a 42asw mark and 1234 over 'a' is easy to identify. Give me a challenge!

Unmarked bayonets are known amongst collectors as 'Blankos', try this on Google it may turn up some relevant hits, including some I've contributed to.

Hope this has helped 'A country gal in California'. If you should think of selling this, think of me. They ain't cheap.

Jim

P.S. Love to see the photos, they always help :P

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Guest needalittlehelp

Jim, Thanks for the diplomacy in asking how I knew it was a 1944 if no marks appear. I wrongly assumed this because this is what I found on the Net. The photos of the 1944, 3rd edition, match my knife exactly - and I found no mention that earlier versions also contained bakelite handles. Our's is the darker red/brown not the very red! With your advise we also now find some numbers. On the bottom of the blade, hidden behind the spring, we find W8A516 with three parallel lines above. These lines have three or four dots forming a triangle (perhaps) placed exactly in the center of the 3 lines. On one underside of the knife where the grip was removed there is either a fancy capital W or an M and above this set on it's side is a 2. On the underside of the knife on the other side is something that appears to be like just the top of an exclaimation mark and the second one appears to have been re-struck with a capital C. The undersides of the grips also are marked and one has a G and 19 and the other a G and 6.

I will go to the websites now that you have provided me with and see what I can findout. If you, or anyone out there, can tell me what the above all means I would appreciate it. We are thinking of selling when we learn the bayonet's idenity and are also wondering if anyone can give a value?

Thanks again, this country gal in California

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The mark that you identify as W8A 516 with the parallel lines above is the Waffenampt mark. It is actually WaA 516, but check that number as it is unlikely to exist. The more likely number is 519. The parallel lines above are actually a stylized eagle and swastika. There may also be one on the ball finial of the scabbard.

Another place to look for a number is to depress the release button, on the part on the other side which will protrude may be an assembly number.

Hopefully the photos will tell us more. The value I would think to be $125+

Jim

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According to Welser (REICHSWEHR & WEHRMACHT BAYONETS), WaA 519 indicates production between 1942-45. It may have been designated for export.

If it has the distinctive "plum-blue" blade color, it's late production.

The site to go for more info is the Bayonet Collectors Network.

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