steve fuller Posted 29 October , 2004 Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Hi again Again, Im told this info was gleaned from his Medal Roll but I havent seen it with my own eyes. On this guys Roll, it lists the following: 10R 1A 8/8/17 to 22/8/17 (either ODC or ODE) 11R 1A 23/8/17 to 30/10/17 1A 27/3/18 to 29/3/18 2nd London Reg. 1A 30/3/18 to 31/8/18 Is this a list of Battalions he served in would you say? What do the 1A references mean please? ODE or ODC??? Any ideas please? Many thanks Pals Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 29 October , 2004 Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Was this man also a member of the Royal Fusiliers by any chance? Regards Gavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 29 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Well ..... On balance Id say so. Someone used that word on a previous thread and definitely ended up in the 1 / 2 Londons at the end, and Ive heard them referred to as Fusiliers? Whether they are technically Fusiliers or not, Im afraid I dont know (have little knowledge on them, sorry ) Why do you say that Gavin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 29 October , 2004 Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Steve, Sorry to confuse matters! The first four battalions of the London Regiment were affiliated to the Royal Fusiliers, and wore the same cap badge. My reason for thinking that he might have also served with a (Non London Regt) battalion of the Royal Fusilers, is the medal roll details. I've seen a lot of medal rolls, and each regiment seems to have had their own ideas on how to compile their roll. The RF are the only regiment I've so far come across, that recorded full dates and details of the battalions served with, as well as the theatre of war. This seems to be what you have here, although in a possibly slightly garbled form. The 1A refers to the theatre of war - France and Flanders. (1b was Italy, 2 was the Balkans etc.) The dates are those served with each battalion. I'd imagine the 10 and 11, refer to the 10th and 11th Battalions RF, but I don't understand the 'R' (Unless it is a B?). He then seems to transfer to the 2nd London Regt (Royal Fusiliers) between May and August 1918. I would have to see the medal roll to be sure though. Do you have the roll reference? Regards Gavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 29 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Understood mate & thank you The 'R' could be 'regiment' unless they had a Reserves? Seen 'Bedf R' (Bedfordshire) on many MICs so far, and seems to be either of the above!! So, are the 10th & 11th the guys from 54th Division (162 Bgde from memory), or a different one entirely?! 2b Gallipoli would add up with the 54th Division if thats the case but they are all listed 1a & I thought the 10th & 11th stayed in Egypt for the duration of the war (after Gallipoli), in which case, why listed as 1a? Any thoughts please? Cheers Gavin Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 29 October , 2004 Share Posted 29 October , 2004 I don't think the R. meaning regiment would be correct in this context. The regiment was the Royal Fusiliers, while the 10th and 11th were battalions, if you see what I mean. The 10th and 11th weren't reserve battalions either. If I were laying money, I would put it on the 'R' being a 'B'. The 10th and 11th Royal Fusiliers were with the 18th Division and 37th Division in France, so that fits. What was Arthur Moss's number? Gavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 29 October , 2004 Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Steve, I've just realised that the 10th and 11th Battalions you mentioned being in Egypt were the 10th and 11th London Regt. They were not connected with the 10th and 11th Royal Fusiliers. Confusing, I know.... Regards Gavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 29 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Nice one Gavin. So the RF's were seperate to the London Regmnt then? His number was GS/48489, survived the war and died in a Psychiatric Hos' in 1970. Familiar with the 11th as they were 54th Bgde, same as my Gt gramps in 7th Beds. So am I correct in thinking that on the surface it seems: 10th Btn RF's (37 Div) in theatre 1A from 8/8/17 to 22/8/17 (ODC or ODE; any ideas mate?) 11th RF's (54 Bgde) in theatre 1A from 23/8/17 to 30/10/17 and 1A 27/3/18 to 29/3/18 2nd London Reg. theatre 1A from 30/3/18 to 31/8/18 The 11th had a right royal scrap from 22nd March 1918 & suffered badly holding the 54th's open left flank, but do you know if they were folded into the 2/1 afterwards or something? I appreciate it could just as easily be a wound and returned to the nearest and most appropriate unit, but do you know of anything specific that may have led to his transfer please? Unless Im not seing it properly, theres a gap between 1 nov 1917 and 27 March 1918 (as well as the period before 8 August 1917). Any thoughts why at all?? Thanks mate Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 29 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Victory & BWM roll nos are TP/104 B13 p1586 (as Ive been given them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 29 October , 2004 Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Steve, TP/104B is indeed the medal roll code for the Royal Fusiliers. (The 2nd Battalion, London Regt were TP2/101B) So I would think that my assumption that he served with the 10th and 11th Royal Fusiliers is correct. The Royal Fusiliers were a seperate regiment from the London Regiment. The London Regiment consisted of thirty odd Territorial Battalions. The various battalions were affiliated to regular regiments. In the case of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Battalions, the affiliation was with the Royal Fusiliers. The other battalions were affiliated to the Queens Regt, Rifle Brigade etc. The transfer to the 2/London Regt could be for any number of reasons. It was common for a soldier to be transfered between units. The gaps in the dates could be explained if he was wounded and back in Britain for a period of time? I don't know what ODE or ODC might be. Regards Gavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 29 October , 2004 Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Steve, I've just had a look at Arthur Moss's medal index Card on the National Archive site. His regiment is shown as Royal Fusiliers rather than London Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 29 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 October , 2004 Thanks again Gavin. understand the RF bit now; never had to learn about it until now, so was a useful crash course mate!! Helps to narrow his efforts down a bit anyway, so def' helpful! Next question is gonna be about their diaries, so will post seperately about that! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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