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trajan

Royal Air Force marked bayonets

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MikeyH

Julian,

Sorry, unable to do a link, the auctioneer is Humbert and Ellis, International Militaria Sale, 21st March, Lot 140.  The catalogue is on line, with several photos of this lot.

Mike.

 

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JMB1943

Mike & Soldier,—-Thanks for the new examples, it’s good to have extra eyes looking for these.

I did already have the Vickers, but not the Enfield, so keep ‘em coming!

 

Trajan, ——Interesting observation regarding the RAF Regt squadron badges.

 

Regards,

JMB

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trajan

And any comments on the re-issue marks JMB? You have detailed lists, I know, so perchance it is signifcant that some are marked for '22, although one at least (if I remember correctly) is a '20. More to the point is that whatever these 're-issue' marks, some are clearly part or entirely removed, or "scrubbed" to uses the technical term...! The latest of these "scrubbed" ones could, in theory, serve as a terminus post quem for issue to the RAF.

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elliot#1
1 hour ago, trajan said:

 

Thanks Mike, again a 22 date, and 1C would be fine - we have a 1.C. 9303 listed... Any chance of a link to the auctioneers for an enquiry or photograph?

 

I also saw this listed. Not sure if I'm allowed to post the link on the forum (I will PM you the link), but the bayonet is 1.C. 9235. Photos are on the listing. 

 

Best Regards,

 

Elliot

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trajan
20 minutes ago, elliot#1 said:

 

I also saw this listed. Not sure if I'm allowed to post the link on the forum (I will PM you the link), but the bayonet is 1.C. 9235. Photos are on the listing. 

 

Copyright law is a minefield, I know, but exceptions for reproducing materials from elsewhere is, to the best of my knowledge, permissable for academic / research / evaluation / comment purposes, so long as it represents a small part of the work being copied and is properly acknowledged and is not expressly forbidden! Happy to be corrected and wrists ready for slapping if necessary:thumbsup: But I'm happy also with the link - many thanks!

 

So scabbard simply marked "R.A.F" on the locket, and bayonet essentially as described above, i.e., a 4/12 Enfield HQ removed with clearance hole, a "reissue" mark of '22, and a 1 / C /  9235, but ricasso markings surprisingly intact. Cheap at the current going price!

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elliot#1

It was the forum rules I wasn't sure on!

 

Just seen another coming up for auction whilst browsing. 1.E. 4232

 

It's a Wilkinson Pall Mall dated Feb 1918, re-inspection mark for 1920.

 

Will PM the link with pictures again just to be safe!

 

Best Regards,

 

Elliot

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JMB1943
57 minutes ago, trajan said:

And any comments on the re-issue marks JMB? You have detailed lists, I know, so perchance it is signifcant that some are marked for '22, although one at least (if I remember correctly) is a '20. More to the point is that whatever these 're-issue' marks, some are clearly part or entirely removed, or "scrubbed" to uses the technical term...! The latest of these "scrubbed" ones could, in theory, serve as a terminus post quem for issue to the RAF.

 

Trajan,

Yes, the majority of the re-issue dates are in the 1920-22 range, although the outliers are 1917 and 1941(!); which latter possibly 

correlates with formation of the Regt in 1942.

Regards,

JMB

 

Your comment re the use of red paint to denote “Drill Only” rifles triggered the memory of red paint in the mortise of the pommel for parade Bayonets——was that a German practice?

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JMB1943
3 minutes ago, elliot#1 said:

It was the forum rules I wasn't sure on!

 

Just seen another coming up for auction whilst browsing. 1.E. 4232

 

It's a Wilkinson Pall Mall dated Feb 1918, re-inspection mark for 1920.

 

Will PM the link with pictures again just to be safe!

 

Best Regards,

 

Elliot

Elliot,

I do already have this one, but as always, please keep sending them because I do inevitably miss some.

Regards,

JMB

 

 

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elliot#1
20 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Elliot,

I do already have this one, but as always, please keep sending them because I do inevitably miss some.

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

Will do. Funnily enough I come across them fairly frequently at auction, shows, shops etc, but as the RAF isn't my area of interest I usually just dismiss them and move on!

 

Best,

 

Elliot

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elliot#1

Apologies, I also missed that it had already been pointed out on this thread. That'll teach me not to re-read before I post!

 

Best,

 

Elliot

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JMB1943
8 minutes ago, elliot#1 said:

 

Will do. Funnily enough I come across them fairly frequently at auction, shows, shops etc, but as the RAF isn't my area of interest I usually just dismiss them and move on!

 

Best,

 

Elliot

 

Elliot,

 

What........”fairly frequently ......just dismiss them”.......Ohhhhhh!!!

Well young man, I think that you need to learn the error of your ways and get a camera ASAP.

Or at least a notebook........we’re expecting great things from you.

 

Regards,

JMB

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trajan
20 hours ago, elliot#1 said:

... Funnily enough I come across them fairly frequently at auction, shows, shops etc, but as the RAF isn't my area of interest I usually just dismiss them and move on!

 

20 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

What........”fairly frequently ......just dismiss them”.......Ohhhhhh!!!

 

I agree with JMB! Do, please, let us have the basic details of any you see, that is to say, the RAF code, but ideally a photograph of the pommel and ricasso marks! You will get ever-gratefulness from us!

 

Again, though, I wonder if these have suddenly started to appear on the market as it were on account of the 100th anniversary of the RAF, even though that was last year!

 

Julian

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Dave66

Another one for the extensive database has just popped up here, fourth item down on main page, early one dated 2-12.

http://www.tommysmilitaria.com/shop.php

 

Dave.

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trajan
1 hour ago, Dave66 said:

Another one for the extensive database has just popped up here, fourth item down on main page, early one dated 2-12.

http://www.tommysmilitaria.com/shop.php

 

Dave.

 

Thanks Dave - and ridiculously over-priced! I reckon a "1 C", but I will bow to m'learned' friend JMB's opinion. 

 

Now, JMB has spotted a undated photograph on sale of an RAF chappie weraing one of these P.1907's!:o I hope the MODS will bear with me in posting a suggestion as to how find this as it looks interwarish period, but it would be nice if a Forum pal would check it out and point us all in the right direction. The chap seems to be wearing what I always think of as a colour sergeant's bandolier... So, google Photograph-RAF-Airman-with-bayonet-and-belt and see what comes up - no connection at all to seller as otherwise it would be mine!! :thumbsup:

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trench whistle
7 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

Thanks Dave - and ridiculously over-priced!

 

What is the going rate for an RAF marked 1907? I have been thinking of adding one to my RAF collection but not being a bayonet collector have no clue as to what they should go for.

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Dave66
7 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

Thanks Dave - and ridiculously over-priced! I reckon a "1 C", but I will bow to m'learned' friend JMB's opinion. 

 

Now, JMB has spotted a undated photograph on sale of an RAF chappie weraing one of these P.1907's!:o I hope the MODS will bear with me in posting a suggestion as to how find this as it looks interwarish period, but it would be nice if a Forum pal would check it out and point us all in the right direction. The chap seems to be wearing what I always think of as a colour sergeant's bandolier... So, google Photograph-RAF-Airman-with-bayonet-and-belt and see what comes up - no connection at all to seller as otherwise it would be mine!! :thumbsup:

Yes, a little bit too expensive for me also, and did look like 1C to me. With regard to the photo possibly interwar but no uniform expert...its here if anyone else wants a better look...https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WORLD-WAR-Photograph-RAF-Airman-with-bayonet-and-belt-Interwar-WWI-WWII-WW1-WW2-/361554659030

 

Dave.

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MikeyH
1 hour ago, Dave66 said:

Another one for the extensive database has just popped up here, fourth item down on main page, early one dated 2-12.

http://www.tommysmilitaria.com/shop.php

 

Dave.

 

That bayonet has been mentioned previously, see my #70, 73# and #76!

 

Mike.

Edited by MikeyH

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Dave66
3 minutes ago, MikeyH said:

 

That bayonet has been mentioned previously, see my #70 and #76.

 

Mike.

So it is, apologies, just went live today so hadn't put the two together. Still, nice to have the link.

 

Dave.

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JMB1943
1 hour ago, MikeyH said:

 

That bayonet has been mentioned previously, see my #70, 73# and #76!

 

Mike.

Yes, indeed!

I had also previously recorded it as 1. C., since we have never logged a “G” ( or possibly O or Q) that it might be impersonating.

 

But as previously noted, please keep them coming; much better for me to spend a couple of minutes checking the database than to be unawares of new ones and now edging closer to 50 entries.

 

Regards,

JMB 

 

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RGJDEE

The only way is up on bayonet prices, ! if however it is dated 2/12 then it has the added value of

’Quillion removed’. ?

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trajan
11 hours ago, trench whistle said:

What is the going rate for an RAF marked 1907? I have been thinking of adding one to my RAF collection but not being a bayonet collector have no clue as to what they should go for.

 

10 hours ago, RGJDEE said:

The only way is up on bayonet prices, ! if however it is dated 2/12 then it has the added value of

’Quillion removed’. ?

 

Well, I am not one for giving valuations - and anyway they are not allowed here I think! But that one is well over-priced by even P.1907 standards. I guess that it being a 2/12 could help justify a higher price as would the frog - not, of course, that there is any way of proving that the frog belongs to the rest of the set, although clearly a more than 50% chance.  

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trajan
11 hours ago, MikeyH said:

 

That bayonet has been mentioned previously, see my #70, 73# and #76!

 

11 hours ago, Dave66 said:

So it is, apologies, just went live today so hadn't put the two together. Still, nice to have the link.

 

10 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

Yes, indeed!

I had also previously recorded it as 1. C., since we have never logged a “G” ( or possibly O or Q) that it might be impersonating.

 

But as previously noted, please keep them coming; much better for me to spend a couple of minutes checking the database than to be unawares of new ones and now edging closer to 50 entries.

 

I missed the connection also - should have checked my files...

 

I am beginning to seriously think we have more examples of RAF-marked P.1907 bayonets than those marked for any other unit in service up to the 1920's  (and possibly beyond depending on what these RAF-marked ones are). Anyone have a copy of what might exist - a unit-marking code book for the RAF analogous to "Instructions for Armourers"? OR can suggest a forum where we shold post and look for one?

 

Julian

 

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Dave66
15 hours ago, trench whistle said:

What is the going rate for an RAF marked 1907? I have been thinking of adding one to my RAF collection but not being a bayonet collector have no clue as to what they should go for.

If in the u.k. I would recomed going to a specific militaria fair where you will find numerous dealers, it will give you a good indication as to value and varying prices.

To put things into context, I have been after one of the scarcer manufactured bayonets, a Vickers, in good condition for some time, and the last fair I went to found one for £140 which was a fair price.

 

Dave.

Edited by Dave66

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trench whistle

Thanks Dave,

 

That gives me an idea of potential prices. My RAF collection has up to now been focused on WWII and post WWII but recently I have been becoming more interested in the early days. I have not been to a fair for years as I haven't been actively collecting in a while just picking up the odd bit here and there as I see them. I will check out what is near me.

 

atb

Jim

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Dave66
5 hours ago, trench whistle said:

Thanks Dave,

 

That gives me an idea of potential prices. My RAF collection has up to now been focused on WWII and post WWII but recently I have been becoming more interested in the early days. I have not been to a fair for years as I haven't been actively collecting in a while just picking up the odd bit here and there as I see them. I will check out what is near me.

 

atb

Jim

One of these would fit well into a WW2 display well anyway but with the added advantage of all those interwar years,  you could even display the correct air ministry marked No4 alongside for a stark comparison.

 

All the best Jim,

 

Dave.

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