Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

trajan

Royal Air Force marked bayonets

Recommended Posts

trajan
18 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

... I hear it calling somebody’s name...cannot quite make it out.....oh, getting louder....trajan....trajan...TRAJAN

Yes, clearly your name, so do buy it and clean up the pommel!

 

:thumbsup:

That's what the angel on the left shoulder says, but the one on the right keeps reminding me that I have to pay the school dinners for this month and save something for the school fees in August - and if my wife finds out that I ignored these obligations, and had in fact bought FOUR bayonets in four weeks (she only knows of the P.1888, which cost me a pair of boots for her), then I might find myself run through with this one even before I had a chance to clean it...:wacko:

Edited by trajan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
13 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

your list together with my additions gives,

 

1.     1878, 671x, 6731, 8356, 9996

1.A.    943, 4027, 

1.B.  1601, 2994, 4607

1.C.  2202, 6557, 7808, 8080, 9303

1.D.  3021, 3713, 4379, 5713, 7390, 7600, 9298

1.E.    398, 852, 897, 1016, 3242, 5476, 6206

1.F.   2103, 

A.L.  5415

Edit: I have omitted 1550, unsure as to whether 1.E or 1.F

 

Many thanks JMB - I knew that you had listed some but could not find them. Hence, partly, the reason for changing the thread title...

 

Here are a couple more downloads, showing a number on one grip, plus the state of the right ricasso and the 're-issue'- mark - the left is not shown. I have expressed an interest in it, but no more as yet - see post above....

 

Julian

 

PS: forgot to ask - do you have a photograph of the 1 E or 1 F 1550 example? What was the source?

 

417729561_tn50_2.jpg

417729561_tn50_3.jpg

Edited by trajan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
18 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

1.     1878, 671x, 6731, 8356, 9996

1.A.    943, 4027, 

1.B.  1601, 2994, 4607

1.C.  2202, 6557, 7808, 8080, 9303

1.D.  3021, 3713, 4379, 5713, 7390, 7600, 9298

1.E.    398, 852, 897, 1016, 3242, 5476, 6206

1.F.   2103, 

A.L.  5415

 

I have found some of these while waiting for the kids - note that '398' is actually '0398'. Minor but possibly important point? At least three more 'RAF marked bayonet' advertised on the web but with unclear marks or no description of them...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMB1943

Hello Trajan,

Here is the original listing that I had made of your data; you will see that you have 1550 twice, as 1.E and as 1.F.

I annotated with # to indicate duplicate entry.

I don't have photo or a source for this one, and I was hoping that you could clarify it.

You are absolutely correct about the zero before the 3-digit numbers; my spreadsheet did not want to take the zero when I did horizontal entries (which is what I copied from), rather than vertical ones (as below).  I shall edit my post above to include the zeroes. 

Regards,

JMB

Trajan  Data  
DATE MAKER STAMP 
    1. 1878
    1. 8356
    1. A. 0943
    1. B
    1. C. 8080
    1. D. 3021
11 '18 W 1. D. 3713
1 '19 W R39; 1. D. 4379
    1. D. 9298
    1. E. 0852
    1. E. 1016
    1. E. 1550#
    1. E.6206
    1. F. 1550#
x '18   1. F. 2103
x'17 W A.L. 5415

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMB1943

Trajan,

 

Thinking again about the issue of a zero before the 3-digit numbers, can we reasonably infer that the first serials would be 0001-0009, 0010-0099 and that the last would be 9999 ?

 

Regards,

JMB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

Many thanks dear friend and mate!

 

Yes, I was assuming they went that 0001-9999 way - as do WW2 German makers' sequences but those are followed by a letter. I'll let you do the maths, but if we have from 1 A to 1 F before the serial, with 1 F finishing at 2103 +, what is going on? I cant't see it as RAF regiment numbering, but as individual commands - but can't work out how! Either way, all seem to be WW1 period  P.1907 bayonets - so justifiiably discussed here - scrubbed of their marks almost completely and then re-issued. Do you know of any that have 're-issue' marks after the one I posted two days ago and in post no.27, which looks to be (19)22?

 

Julian

 

PS: currently helping older boy (12) with homework... Have you ever heard of 'synovial fluid'? What DO they learn these days.

Edited by trajan
add PS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhilB

This as an IWM photo of RAF Regiment 1942-45. The men carry the scabbard of the pigsticker bayonet for the SMLE but unusually hanging at the front rather than the rear.

large_000000.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMB1943
1 hour ago, trajan said:

Many thanks dear friend and mate!

 

Yes, I was assuming they went that 0001-9999 way - as do WW2 German makers' sequences but those are followed by a letter. I'll let you do the maths, but if we have from 1 A to 1 F before the serial, with 1 F finishing at 2103 +, what is going on? I cant't see it as RAF regiment numbering, but as individual commands - but can't work out how!

 

Trajan,

 

These serials that we have noted are purely random numbers; “1.F. finishing at 2103” is just the single, random serial that we have located for the 1.F. tranche.

If you inspect your original listing, above, you see that entries range 0-4 for any tranche, so a single entry is not that unusual.

 

Re-inspection dates noted so far are ‘17, ‘18, ‘20, ‘21, ‘22 (3x), and ‘25.

 

I have some musings on the “commands or organizational structure ”, which are off topic, so will send shortly in PM.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons
9 hours ago, PhilB said:

This as an IWM photo of RAF Regiment 1942-45. The men carry the scabbard of the pigsticker bayonet for the SMLE but unusually hanging at the front rather than the rear.

 

The spike bayonet scabbard shown here is NOT for the SMLE (by this point known as the rifle No1)  but for the Rifle No4 (never referred to as an SHtLE or SMLE as it was introduced after the term had ceased to be used).

The frogs they are using were designed for the P1907 bayonet (by this point known as the Bayonet No1) however because you can see the loop at the top designed to steady the pommel (but unneeded on the spike bayonet)

They also have interesting belts on - they do not appear to be 1937 pattern belts - perhaps the Air Ministry specific 1925 pattern? (SEE HERE)  As the Karkee Web site notes Belt and bayonet only (and in this case carrying a respirator) was worn as "walking out" dress.

Chris

Edited by 4thGordons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMB1943
On 19/02/2019 at 14:33, JMB1943 said:

Trajan,

 

But wait, there’s more.....your list together with my additions gives,

 

1.     1878, 671x, 6731, 8356, 9996

1.A.  0943, 4027, 

1.B.  1601, 2994, 4607

1.C.  2202, 6557, 7808, 8080, 9303

1.D.  3021, 3713, 4379, 5713, 7390, 7600, 9298

1.E.  0398, 0852, 0897, 1016, 3242, 5476, 6206

1.F.   2103, 

A.L.  5415

 

Regards,

JMB

 

Edit: I have omitted 1550, unsure as to whether 1.E or 1.F

Trajan,

 

Scrolling back through this thread shows that the possible duplication of 1550 first occurs in your list in post #14; hence my uncertainty.

Of course, it is possible that 1550 is found as both a 1.E and a 1.F but could you check your original notes.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhilB
9 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

 

The spike bayonet scabbard shown here is NOT for the SMLE (by this point known as the rifle No1)  but for the Rifle No4 

Chris

Of course, you`re technically correct!  Apparently it also fits the MkV Sten. I used the bayonet with the No 4 during my NS years and it was generally referred to as an SMLE - incorrectly it seems!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

Thanks JMB for your as usual valued comments. I'll look at the PM later, as a bit busy here, likewise with checking my files which might be on my old computer...:unsure:. Well if this one not sold by Monday, maybe I can get it Thursday - pay day! In the meantime, better photographs, I hope. it is is certainly an I.C. Any chance of identifying the maker from those inspector stamps?

 

 

417729561_1.jpg

417729561_2.jpg

417729561_3.jpg

Edited by trajan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMB1943

Trajan,

 

Very probably RSAF, from the crown/EFD/35.

I have only recorded that, or crown/EFD/51, on the Enfield P.’07’s.

 

Regards,

JMB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

 

 

On 21/02/2019 at 18:48, trajan said:

Thanks JMB for your as usual valued comments. I'll look at the PM later, as a bit busy here, likewise with checking my files which might be on my old computer...:unsure:. Well if this one not sold by Monday, maybe I can get it Thursday - pay day! In the meantime, better photographs, I hope. it is is certainly an I.C. Any chance of identifying the maker from those inspector stamps?

 

On 21/02/2019 at 20:43, JMB1943 said:

Very probably RSAF, from the crown/EFD/35.

I have only recorded that, or crown/EFD/51, on the Enfield P.’07’s.

 

Well, the new Ankara exmple arrived and safely smuggled in :ph34r: but will have to wait until the weekend probably for photographs. To be going on with - 

 

'Tis indeed " R.A.F. / I.C. /9303"  

 

Left ricasso - "3 / 16", possibly "3 / 18" - and "EFD", so bang on there!

 

Right ricasso - top two stamps not clear, but a "'22" 're-issue' mark above the  "Crown / EFD / 35".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
Posted (edited)

While SWAMBO is away and the sun is shining, albeit low on the horizon, I snatched these ones...

 

So, when were these ex-WW1 bayonets assigned to the RAF, and what are these unit codes? 

 

 

raf 01.jpg

raf 02.jpg

raf 05.jpg

raf 06.jpg

raf 03.jpg

raf 04.jpg

Edited by trajan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

Just spotted "R.A.F. / 1.F. / 6802" at: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ww1-british-1907-smle-bayonet-raf-134267629

 

A "Chapman and dated 3/18. There is also another date on the blade 1941". ... "The steel mounted leather scabbard is in good condition, the mounts have been Kahki painted and the leather body is marked CLIFF, WALSALL and is dated 1941."

 

Text and photographs reproduced here for research and record purposes.

 

 

1.F.6802.jpg

1.F.6802 02.jpg

1.F.6802 03.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave66
Posted (edited)

Just for records, one has just appeared here,http://www.bayonetman.com/shop.php

1st page, second from bottom.

Dave.

Edited by Dave66

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

Many thanks Dave! A WILKINSON / PALL MALL also! So, R.A.F. / I / 5806... And a nice RAF marked scabbard also!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMB1943
Posted (edited)

Trajan/ Dave 66,

 

Thanks for those updates; have just logged them into the database, and total is 37 or thereabouts.

I read it as 1. 5809 ???

 

Regards,

JMB

Edited by JMB1943
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave66
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JMB1943 said:

Trajan/ Dave 66,

 

Thanks for those updates; have just logged them into the database, and total is 37 or thereabouts.

I read it as 1. 5809 ???

 

Regards,

JMB

Thought it might help build the bigger picture, I read it as 1/5809 also, and also nice to see a scabbard marked like that.

 

1 hour ago, trajan said:

Many thanks Dave! A WILKINSON / PALL MALL also! So, R.A.F. / I / 5806... And a nice RAF marked scabbard also!

A very reasonable example, scabbard and all 😀.

Edited by Dave66

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

Yes, 1509 it is... Time to go to the opticians - haven't had some new ones since 2016...

 

JMB, summer holiday plans still not sorted out, but if I can get to somewhere in GB to sort this marking system out I will!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JMB1943

Trajan,

 

Is 1509 your final offer?

I think that you should take two eye-drops and call me in the morning!

 

Regards,

JMB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
22 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Is 1509 your final offer?

I think that you should take two eye-drops and call me in the morning!

 

:thumbsup: Of course an over indulgence in red grape juice may have contributed to my mis-reading...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave66
14 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

:thumbsup: Of course an over indulgence in red grape juice may have contributed to my mis-reading...

In that case, totally forgiven...pour another glass with lunch and all will be back to normal.🍷

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RGJDEE

Morning all, here’s one to add to your database gentlemen , sadly not mine.

cheers R.

68E9BF4C-33E9-4386-87A2-A24C2E6B6C3F.png

D8C0E20E-AC8B-41DF-B16E-FB8F6C38F5D8.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...