trajan Posted 20 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, JMB1943 said: ... I hear it calling somebody’s name...cannot quite make it out.....oh, getting louder....trajan....trajan...TRAJAN Yes, clearly your name, so do buy it and clean up the pommel! That's what the angel on the left shoulder says, but the one on the right keeps reminding me that I have to pay the school dinners for this month and save something for the school fees in August - and if my wife finds out that I ignored these obligations, and had in fact bought FOUR bayonets in four weeks (she only knows of the P.1888, which cost me a pair of boots for her), then I might find myself run through with this one even before I had a chance to clean it... Edited 20 February , 2019 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, JMB1943 said: your list together with my additions gives, 1. 1878, 671x, 6731, 8356, 9996 1.A. 943, 4027, 1.B. 1601, 2994, 4607 1.C. 2202, 6557, 7808, 8080, 9303 1.D. 3021, 3713, 4379, 5713, 7390, 7600, 9298 1.E. 398, 852, 897, 1016, 3242, 5476, 6206 1.F. 2103, A.L. 5415 Edit: I have omitted 1550, unsure as to whether 1.E or 1.F Many thanks JMB - I knew that you had listed some but could not find them. Hence, partly, the reason for changing the thread title... Here are a couple more downloads, showing a number on one grip, plus the state of the right ricasso and the 're-issue'- mark - the left is not shown. I have expressed an interest in it, but no more as yet - see post above.... Julian PS: forgot to ask - do you have a photograph of the 1 E or 1 F 1550 example? What was the source? Edited 20 February , 2019 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2019 18 hours ago, JMB1943 said: 1. 1878, 671x, 6731, 8356, 9996 1.A. 943, 4027, 1.B. 1601, 2994, 4607 1.C. 2202, 6557, 7808, 8080, 9303 1.D. 3021, 3713, 4379, 5713, 7390, 7600, 9298 1.E. 398, 852, 897, 1016, 3242, 5476, 6206 1.F. 2103, A.L. 5415 I have found some of these while waiting for the kids - note that '398' is actually '0398'. Minor but possibly important point? At least three more 'RAF marked bayonet' advertised on the web but with unclear marks or no description of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 20 February , 2019 Share Posted 20 February , 2019 Hello Trajan, Here is the original listing that I had made of your data; you will see that you have 1550 twice, as 1.E and as 1.F. I annotated with # to indicate duplicate entry. I don't have photo or a source for this one, and I was hoping that you could clarify it. You are absolutely correct about the zero before the 3-digit numbers; my spreadsheet did not want to take the zero when I did horizontal entries (which is what I copied from), rather than vertical ones (as below). I shall edit my post above to include the zeroes. Regards, JMB Trajan Data DATE MAKER STAMP 1. 1878 1. 8356 1. A. 0943 1. B 1. C. 8080 1. D. 3021 11 '18 W 1. D. 3713 1 '19 W R39; 1. D. 4379 1. D. 9298 1. E. 0852 1. E. 1016 1. E. 1550# 1. E.6206 1. F. 1550# x '18 1. F. 2103 x'17 W A.L. 5415 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 20 February , 2019 Share Posted 20 February , 2019 Trajan, Thinking again about the issue of a zero before the 3-digit numbers, can we reasonably infer that the first serials would be 0001-0009, 0010-0099 and that the last would be 9999 ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2019 (edited) Many thanks dear friend and mate! Yes, I was assuming they went that 0001-9999 way - as do WW2 German makers' sequences but those are followed by a letter. I'll let you do the maths, but if we have from 1 A to 1 F before the serial, with 1 F finishing at 2103 +, what is going on? I cant't see it as RAF regiment numbering, but as individual commands - but can't work out how! Either way, all seem to be WW1 period P.1907 bayonets - so justifiiably discussed here - scrubbed of their marks almost completely and then re-issued. Do you know of any that have 're-issue' marks after the one I posted two days ago and in post no.27, which looks to be (19)22? Julian PS: currently helping older boy (12) with homework... Have you ever heard of 'synovial fluid'? What DO they learn these days. Edited 20 February , 2019 by trajan add PS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 20 February , 2019 Share Posted 20 February , 2019 This as an IWM photo of RAF Regiment 1942-45. The men carry the scabbard of the pigsticker bayonet for the SMLE but unusually hanging at the front rather than the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 20 February , 2019 Share Posted 20 February , 2019 1 hour ago, trajan said: Many thanks dear friend and mate! Yes, I was assuming they went that 0001-9999 way - as do WW2 German makers' sequences but those are followed by a letter. I'll let you do the maths, but if we have from 1 A to 1 F before the serial, with 1 F finishing at 2103 +, what is going on? I cant't see it as RAF regiment numbering, but as individual commands - but can't work out how! Trajan, These serials that we have noted are purely random numbers; “1.F. finishing at 2103” is just the single, random serial that we have located for the 1.F. tranche. If you inspect your original listing, above, you see that entries range 0-4 for any tranche, so a single entry is not that unusual. Re-inspection dates noted so far are ‘17, ‘18, ‘20, ‘21, ‘22 (3x), and ‘25. I have some musings on the “commands or organizational structure ”, which are off topic, so will send shortly in PM. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 February , 2019 Share Posted 21 February , 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, PhilB said: This as an IWM photo of RAF Regiment 1942-45. The men carry the scabbard of the pigsticker bayonet for the SMLE but unusually hanging at the front rather than the rear. The spike bayonet scabbard shown here is NOT for the SMLE (by this point known as the rifle No1) but for the Rifle No4 (never referred to as an SHtLE or SMLE as it was introduced after the term had ceased to be used). The frogs they are using were designed for the P1907 bayonet (by this point known as the Bayonet No1) however because you can see the loop at the top designed to steady the pommel (but unneeded on the spike bayonet) They also have interesting belts on - they do not appear to be 1937 pattern belts - perhaps the Air Ministry specific 1925 pattern? (SEE HERE) As the Karkee Web site notes Belt and bayonet only (and in this case carrying a respirator) was worn as "walking out" dress. Chris Edited 21 February , 2019 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 21 February , 2019 Share Posted 21 February , 2019 On 19/02/2019 at 14:33, JMB1943 said: Trajan, But wait, there’s more.....your list together with my additions gives, 1. 1878, 671x, 6731, 8356, 9996 1.A. 0943, 4027, 1.B. 1601, 2994, 4607 1.C. 2202, 6557, 7808, 8080, 9303 1.D. 3021, 3713, 4379, 5713, 7390, 7600, 9298 1.E. 0398, 0852, 0897, 1016, 3242, 5476, 6206 1.F. 2103, A.L. 5415 Regards, JMB Edit: I have omitted 1550, unsure as to whether 1.E or 1.F Trajan, Scrolling back through this thread shows that the possible duplication of 1550 first occurs in your list in post #14; hence my uncertainty. Of course, it is possible that 1550 is found as both a 1.E and a 1.F but could you check your original notes. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 21 February , 2019 Share Posted 21 February , 2019 9 hours ago, 4thGordons said: The spike bayonet scabbard shown here is NOT for the SMLE (by this point known as the rifle No1) but for the Rifle No4 Chris Of course, you`re technically correct! Apparently it also fits the MkV Sten. I used the bayonet with the No 4 during my NS years and it was generally referred to as an SMLE - incorrectly it seems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 February , 2019 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2019 (edited) Thanks JMB for your as usual valued comments. I'll look at the PM later, as a bit busy here, likewise with checking my files which might be on my old computer.... Well if this one not sold by Monday, maybe I can get it Thursday - pay day! In the meantime, better photographs, I hope. it is is certainly an I.C. Any chance of identifying the maker from those inspector stamps? Edited 21 February , 2019 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 21 February , 2019 Share Posted 21 February , 2019 Trajan, Very probably RSAF, from the crown/EFD/35. I have only recorded that, or crown/EFD/51, on the Enfield P.’07’s. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2019 On 21/02/2019 at 18:48, trajan said: Thanks JMB for your as usual valued comments. I'll look at the PM later, as a bit busy here, likewise with checking my files which might be on my old computer.... Well if this one not sold by Monday, maybe I can get it Thursday - pay day! In the meantime, better photographs, I hope. it is is certainly an I.C. Any chance of identifying the maker from those inspector stamps? On 21/02/2019 at 20:43, JMB1943 said: Very probably RSAF, from the crown/EFD/35. I have only recorded that, or crown/EFD/51, on the Enfield P.’07’s. Well, the new Ankara exmple arrived and safely smuggled in but will have to wait until the weekend probably for photographs. To be going on with - 'Tis indeed " R.A.F. / I.C. /9303" Left ricasso - "3 / 16", possibly "3 / 18" - and "EFD", so bang on there! Right ricasso - top two stamps not clear, but a "'22" 're-issue' mark above the "Crown / EFD / 35". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2019 (edited) While SWAMBO is away and the sun is shining, albeit low on the horizon, I snatched these ones... So, when were these ex-WW1 bayonets assigned to the RAF, and what are these unit codes? Edited 7 March , 2019 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2019 Just spotted "R.A.F. / 1.F. / 6802" at: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ww1-british-1907-smle-bayonet-raf-134267629 A "Chapman and dated 3/18. There is also another date on the blade 1941". ... "The steel mounted leather scabbard is in good condition, the mounts have been Kahki painted and the leather body is marked CLIFF, WALSALL and is dated 1941." Text and photographs reproduced here for research and record purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 9 March , 2019 Share Posted 9 March , 2019 (edited) Just for records, one has just appeared here,http://www.bayonetman.com/shop.php 1st page, second from bottom. Dave. Edited 9 March , 2019 by Dave66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2019 Many thanks Dave! A WILKINSON / PALL MALL also! So, R.A.F. / I / 5806... And a nice RAF marked scabbard also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 9 March , 2019 Share Posted 9 March , 2019 (edited) Trajan/ Dave 66, Thanks for those updates; have just logged them into the database, and total is 37 or thereabouts. I read it as 1. 5809 ??? Regards, JMB Edited 9 March , 2019 by JMB1943 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 9 March , 2019 Share Posted 9 March , 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, JMB1943 said: Trajan/ Dave 66, Thanks for those updates; have just logged them into the database, and total is 37 or thereabouts. I read it as 1. 5809 ??? Regards, JMB Thought it might help build the bigger picture, I read it as 1/5809 also, and also nice to see a scabbard marked like that. 1 hour ago, trajan said: Many thanks Dave! A WILKINSON / PALL MALL also! So, R.A.F. / I / 5806... And a nice RAF marked scabbard also! A very reasonable example, scabbard and all 😀. Edited 9 March , 2019 by Dave66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2019 Yes, 1509 it is... Time to go to the opticians - haven't had some new ones since 2016... JMB, summer holiday plans still not sorted out, but if I can get to somewhere in GB to sort this marking system out I will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 10 March , 2019 Share Posted 10 March , 2019 Trajan, Is 1509 your final offer? I think that you should take two eye-drops and call me in the morning! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 March , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2019 22 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: Is 1509 your final offer? I think that you should take two eye-drops and call me in the morning! Of course an over indulgence in red grape juice may have contributed to my mis-reading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 10 March , 2019 Share Posted 10 March , 2019 14 minutes ago, trajan said: Of course an over indulgence in red grape juice may have contributed to my mis-reading... In that case, totally forgiven...pour another glass with lunch and all will be back to normal.🍷 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 March , 2019 Share Posted 14 March , 2019 Morning all, here’s one to add to your database gentlemen , sadly not mine. cheers R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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