elstevo Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Is anyone aware of any systematic allocation of service numbers for the Northumberland Fusiliers (particularly for 16th Bn)? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Hi, As a new member you may not be aware that the NF numbering expert on the forum is Graham Stewart. If your query is in relation to Tyneside Scottish or Tyneside Irish then forum member Tyneside Chinaman - AKA John Sheen - may also help. Graham & John co authored the Tyneside Scottish book and John wrote the Tyneside Irish history book. If you post your specific query I'm sure Graham or John will respond in due course. Regards Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draperju Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 post his name and number I have a database for 16th NF Draperju Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elstevo Posted 7 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2014 This doesn't relate to a single serviceman. I am asking if there was a numbering system for the NF (particularly with reference to the 16th). Was there a number sequence, prefix, set, etc for each battalion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Simply answered yes - 3/; 4/; 5/; 6/; 7/; 16/; 17/; 18/; 19/; 20/; 21/; 22/; 23/; 24/; 25/; 26/; 27/; 28/; 29/; 30/; 31/; 32/; and possibly 33/ & 34/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elstevo Posted 7 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2014 How come there are many service numbers without such a prefix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Hi, That's because the service battalions, 9,10,11,12,13, 14 & 15 were numbered in the regular sequence and didn't use the battalion prefix. also in 1917 when the territorials were renumbered they lost the battalion prefix. as the sequence grew larger numbers say from 20000 onwards were not prefixed however you do come across documents where the battalion number has been added as in 13/??????. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 How come there are many service numbers without such a prefix? Coz of clerical error regarding the pre-fix numbers previously mentioned and the fact that other numbers didn't require a pre-fix, as they weren't Special Reservists, Territorials or original members of 'Locally Raised Battalions', unless duplicate numbers. The errors are only apparent when you've gone through nearly every Medal Roll Book belonging to the regiment, this is also assisted with a Database containing over 94,000 entries of men who served in the regiment through WWI. If you are unfamiliar with the British Armys numbering system then I would suggest you read;- "Regimental & Army Numbers of the British Line Infantry Soldier from AD.1800 - 2008" by David Langley and Graham Stewart. It's pretty 'geeky', but explains how the system worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Graham/John, Well done for responding as a "double act" as advertised! Regards Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 GEEKY! I SAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxsapper1915 Posted 16 November , 2014 Share Posted 16 November , 2014 John , do you know what regimental numbers would have been issued to the 12th Battalion? regards Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 16 November , 2014 Share Posted 16 November , 2014 John , do you know what regimental numbers would have been issued to the 12th Battalion? regards Baz 12th Bn, NF start in a five figure series at 100**, but they are not consecutive and not pre-fixed, they also jump around as other lads are posted to other battalions around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxsapper1915 Posted 16 November , 2014 Share Posted 16 November , 2014 Thanks John, that's helped a lot. Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 16 November , 2014 Share Posted 16 November , 2014 Thanks John, that's helped a lot. Baz A large group also comes in numbered from 24345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxsapper1915 Posted 16 November , 2014 Share Posted 16 November , 2014 My Great Grandfather was with the 97th Field Company RE who did the trench repairs on trenches 76-80 near the Houplines area in Oct 15-Feb 16, which the 12th and 13th battalions were holding. Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phase.T Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 I have recently learned that regimental numbers were recycled. My grandfather, 1118 PTE Frederick Hassett, 1Bn Northumberland Fusiliers, enlisted in Portsmouth in February 1905 and served in India from 1906 to 1913. He was recalled to the colours in 1914, went to France with the BEF in August 1914 and was wounded (GSW left knee) in October 1914. He was discharged from the depot unit in Newcastle Upon Tyne in 1916 after which time he married the widow Alice Gertrude Witherspoon (nee Gibson). I have searched for him by his regimental number but came up with three other NF members with this number who served after him but have been unsuccessful in finding any record of Fred. The information I have comes from his original Soldier's Small Book where he recorded his next of kin, educational attainments, battles he participated in etc. Straying off topic; when originally discharged in 1913, would he have provided a contact address given that he would have had an obligation to the Reserves for a period after discharge? If so, where would I find it? My apologies if this question is inappropriate in this thread but like others I'm still finding my way around. Thanks, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 Hi, If you don't get a response within a couple of days I would start a new topic with your man's name, regiment and regimental number in the title. In relation to the query in your last paragraph the answer is that he would have provided an address on discharge. There was an obligation on him to provide RHQ with details of any further change of address whilst on the reserve. The details would be in his service papers. I presume you have searched for his service papers on Ancestry or Findmypast and drawn a blank? Have you located his medal index card, silver war badge and medal roll entries? Good Luck Steve Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 3 November , 2015 Admin Share Posted 3 November , 2015 There are 2 MICs (1914 Star & VM/BWM) for this man with that number - easy to find on Ancestry - and I think viewing MICs is free isn't it? Entered France on 13/08/1914. Served with the 1st Bn NF. Discharged 02/04/1916. He also has an SWB. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 3 November , 2015 Share Posted 3 November , 2015 There are 2 MICs (1914 Star & VM/BWM) for this man with that number - easy to find on Ancestry - and I think viewing MICs is free isn't it? Entered France on 13/08/1914. Served with the 1st Bn NF. Discharged 02/04/1916. He also has an SWB. Russ Actually entered France 31st August 1914 and Discharged as dated. Silver War Badge No.19059. No records known of at this time I'm afraid, so may have been destroyed. Know he received his 3rd Class Certificate of Education(dated 5th Sept 1906), in October 1906, while based in Fort William, Calcutta and was also presented with a bronze(6months membership) medal during the same month, as a member of the Royal Army Temperance Association Also received his first Good Conduct Badge on the 12th July 1907. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 4 November , 2015 Share Posted 4 November , 2015 Peter According to the Silver War Badge Roll, Frederick enlisted 31st March 1905 and was discharged 2nd April 1916 with GSW to RIGHT knee On the 1911 Census he is shown as serving as a private with 1st Battalion in India. His date of birth is listed as 1882 and born Islington, London. Can't find him on the 1891 or 1901 Census. There is a Frederick Hassett born approx. 1881 shown on the 1891 Census as living at the South Metropolitan School District Industrial School, Brighton Road, Sutton whose place of birth is listed as not known. There is also a birth entry for an unnamed male child with surname Hassett born second quarter 1881 in Greenwich. This Frederick Hassett appears to have died in Greenwich on 12th April 1917 Can't find a service or pension record on Ancestry Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew p smith Posted 12 April , 2019 Share Posted 12 April , 2019 (edited) Private Oliver Smith 65999 Hoping someone can cast a little light on my Granddad's service in the Northumberland Fusiliers during the Great War?...he was a Leics man born in Ashby de la Zouch 30th June 1900 and we're led to believe that he was underage when he joined up...his service # was 65999 and at some point he was re mustered into the KOYLI's...curious at to know if his service # can give an indication of the battalion and also is it possible to determine a join up date? (i.e. is 65999 = 6th battalion / 5999 man to join it?)...Hoping someone can help....as a secondary point of intigue whilst looking into NF and leics men there were a fair few from around this part of Leics that ended up in the NF...and I've copied abit of afcebook post that I put together earlier today including s Sgt William England who was awarded the MM 12 apr 1917 at Arras....heres the pasted post..."I'm trying to work out why a fair few Ashby men were in the Northumberland Fusiliers?...My Grandad Smith was in this regt to begin with (at some point he was transferred to the KOYLI's)...also a Sgt William England was awarded the MM whilst in the N.Fus and again an Ashby Man... Private Joseph WebsterNorthumberland Fusiliers #4904Date of death: 05/10/1916 (aged 33)Son of Mr. and Mrs. C. Webster, of 69, The Callis, Ashby-de-la-Zouch, Lance Corporal Charles ChadwickNorthumberland Fusiliers #38421 Date of death: 03/05/1917 (aged 30) Son of Thomas Chadwick, of 4, The Callis, Ashby-de-la-Zouch Lance Corporal Ernest Poyser Northumberland Fusiliers #38749 Date of death: 30/09/1917 (aged 27) Son of Nessie Taylor (formerly Poyser) of 63, The Callis, Ashby-de-la-Zouch, Leicestershire, and the late Sam Poyser. Employee of the Midland Railway Coy." Edited 12 April , 2019 by andrew p smith inclusion of images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 12 April , 2019 Share Posted 12 April , 2019 27 minutes ago, andrew p smith said: Hoping someone can cast alittle light on my Grandad's service in the Northumberland Fusiliers during the Great War?...he was a Leics man born in Ashby de la Zouch 30th June 1900 and we're led to believe that he was underage when he joined up...his service # was 65999 and at some point he was remustered into the KOYLI's...curious at to know if his service # can give an indication of the battalion and also is it possible to determine a join up date? (i.e. is 65999 = 6th battalion / 5999 man to join it?)...Hoping someone can help....as a secondary point of intigue whilst looking into NF and leics men there were a fair few from around this part of Leics that ended up in the NF...and I've copied abit of afcebook post that I put together earlier today including s Sgt William England who was awarded the MM 12 apr 1917 at Arras....heres the pasted post..."I'm trying to work out why a fair few Ashby men were in the Northumberland Fusiliers?...My Grandad Smith was in this regt to begin with (at some point he was transferred to the KOYLI's)...also a Sgt William England was awarded the MM whilst in the N.Fus and again an Ashby Man...Private Joseph WebsterNorthumberland FusiliersDate of death: 05/10/1916 (aged 33)Son of Mr. and Mrs. C. Webster, of 69, The Callis, Ashby-de-la-Zouch, Lance Corporal Charles ChadwickNorthumberland Fusiliers Date of death: 03/05/1917 (aged 30) Son of Thomas Chadwick, of 4, The Callis, Ashby-de-la-Zouch Lance Corporal Ernest Poyser Northumberland Fusiliers Date of death: 30/09/1917 (aged 27) Son of Nessie Taylor (formerly Poyser) of 63, The Callis, Ashby-de-la-Zouch, Leicestershire, and the late Sam Poyser. Employee of the Midland Railway Coy." Hi, It might help members if you post your grandfather’s name please? Have you got Regimental numbers of all the casualties you list - that’ll save members having to search CWGC and or Ancestry etc. Graham Stewart is the forum NF expert - hopefully he will respond. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58 Div Mule Posted 12 April , 2019 Share Posted 12 April , 2019 Elstevo, I think your asking about consecutive numbering specifically relating to 16 NF (Newcastle Commercials)? If so have you a copy of Ian Johnson's excellent book about the battalion? On formation the battalion were given consecutive numbers based on the date of enlistment prefixed 16. I have some interest in brother in laws serving in B Coy both killed on 1.7.1916, consecutively numbered 16-1281 & 16-1282. They were miners from Ashington. The battalion was badly mauled on the first day of the Somme and servicemen joining after that date as reinforcements/drafts brought with them a differing range of NF numbers. 58DM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Regiano Posted 12 April , 2019 Share Posted 12 April , 2019 There is a MIC for Oliver Smith 65999 which shows he was awarded the VM and BWM and gives his KOYLI number as 62410. It doesn't add anything further. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A001448-01886?pid=4968730&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dfhb395%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Dmedalrolls%26gsln%3Dsmith%26cp%3D0%26_F00061C3%3Dnorthumberland%20fusiliers%26_F00061C3_x%3D1%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Duc3%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D83%26h%3D4968730%26recoff%3D%26fsk%3DMDs0OTs1MA-61--61-%26bsk%3D%26pgoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D84&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fhb395&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew p smith Posted 12 April , 2019 Share Posted 12 April , 2019 I obtained a copy from online KEW services few years back,,,its the battalion I'm hoping to determine from his service #s 65999 and 62410 North.Fusiliers & KOYLI respectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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