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Remembered Today:

Why did they not talk about the war...


LCpl Lee Cope

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Hello folks, this is just a curiosity post to find answers.

I do not mean to antagonize or provoke a reaction from anyone, I just simply wish to know why our relatives never spoke about the war...

Maybe some of you're ancestors did, but I spent a fare old while as a child with my grandma and she never once mentioned a single moment of her fathers time in The Great War, so it makes me think, why not?

I also have a granduncle who was a POW in WW2 and he never mentioned a single thing to his children either.

I guess some things are just too hard to talk about, but maybe THEY SHOULD HAVE just to help us understand what they went through. :(

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I think that it is a fascinating subject area that you have raised.

The Psychology of war has always interested me......

Even Harry Patch - "the last Tommy" refused to talk about any of his war time experiences until 1998.

As you say, this mindset also spanned into the Second World War..... look at Jeremy Clarkson's Father in Law, Major Robert Cain.... according to Clarkson he never cared to mention that he had won the VC!!!

Imagine..... :(

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My 2 cents worth from my experiences.

1st I am an ex regular Australian Infantry soldier. (1981-89) I am a current serving Police officer of 20 years. One of the things that I have found is that it is pointless to talk to someone about my experiences unless they have a similar background. It’s a bit hard to explain but unless you are an ex soldier (Navy & Air force have their own experiences, similar but completely different) people just can’t relate and have no idea or a slight interest. I am involved in several historical associations and the blokes that I click with are all ex army. It doesn’t matter the nationality that they served or the times but we have that common link/bond. For example clean socks. You will know what that means if you can relate. Not Oh that’s nice, but that feeling that a pair of socks gives you after a hard slog. “Having the second last piquet”.

In the 90’s, I used to put on a display at the local boot sales of badges and then ask people if they had any that they wanted to sell to me. I met a lot of ex-servicemen/women who whilst they would not sell me their old badges certainly had long chats with me about their time serving. I remember speaking with an old bloke who had a middle aged woman with him. He stopped and we talked for about an hour or so. She never said a word. They then moved on. About 30 minutes later she came back by herself and told me that was the first time she had ever heard her father speak about his army/war experiences. How can a soldier begin to explain unless you have been there. There is also a world of difference between an infantry soldier and a transport soldier.

This is why the returned soldiers clubs that sprang up after the war were so popular. When I was a young bloke growing up in the 70’s, I worked with a lot of WW2 vets. I was interested in WW2 and I used to pester them all the time. One bloke was ex Irish Guards tanks, A British Para, several Australian Infantry soldiers who were in North Africa, Tobruk and New Guinea. A bloke who was a boy seaman doing Atlantic convoy runs. Looking back they didn’t tell me a damn thing. What do you tell a smart **** 16 year old about what you did during the war?

I have had some bad times as a copper, but I don’t tell the wife the full details, however I tell my two sons who are serving soldiers. There are some things you can’t tell to the ones closest to you.

It tends to make you cynical and have a bad sense of humour. It also took me about one hour to put this together to try and explain it. ( If that makes any sense.) Cheers ED

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My father & his three brothers served in action in ww 1 & the only time they talked about it was when they were together, always with humour, even the bad times were humerous, usually out of earshot but much laughter. Only decades later did I source some of their service usually with the great help supplied by some excellent members, alas none of their records survived.

As our friend from Oz. related only other people with similar experiences could & would understand.

Colin.

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My old uncle used to think it was great to sit me down and talk about his time in the Navy ( H.M.S Seadog ) I loved it and that was the spark that ignited my fascination with the wars.

I then used to have a local club that I would frequent you know for the odd lemonade :thumbsup: this was an R.N.A Club and some of the things the lads told you about the war would make your toes curl and it was not just Navy men a lot of old soldiers drank in that club but alas that hostelry is now closed,so some lads did talk about the war all be it with a wee nip or two in them.

Gary.

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As an ex-serviceman my own experience is that people. civvies, don't want to hear 'old soldiers or airmen' going on about their war stories. Everyone has their own problems and that is as much as anyone can cope with. The soldier in the trench may have seen some hellish sights but his family were struggling to feed and clothe themselves at home. To the people at home their own troubles were just as bad as those experienced by the men at the front.

I think it is just down to normal human reactions. If you don't tell me your troubles I wont tell you mine. That may seem a slightly cynical view but I have a number of ex-service pals and I've seen their eyes glaze over when some old boy starts relating his time in the army/navy/raf. We all think we've been there, done that, and got the tee shirt.

After a while you just stop telling stories because no one will believe you.

Garth

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[This is a fascinating thread - and BTW I always think that the opinions of servicemen and ex-servicemen (and women) are particularly valuable on the Forum to the rest of us, and that their opinions carry special weight].

Both of my grandfathers were in the infantry in WW1. As the youngest grandson in my teens (they were in their 80s then) after years of silence, they both chose to talk to me about the war. I was fascinated by the war, so was a willing audience, which my brother and cousins perhaps weren't, so both grandfathers gave me their medals, despite me being the youngest.

They both told me things that I later found that the rest of the family knew nothing about - amongst many other things maternal grandfather told me about how he had been a sniper, and about a very narrow escape in the 1918 German Spring Offensive. Paternal grandfather told me about the three times he was wounded (other relatives had a vague idea he had been wounded once) including being buried alive by a howitzer shell at Bezantin Ridge, and knowing he was going to die (so he thought).

My mother tells me that at a family meal, paternal grandfather used to occasionally start to reminisce about WW1, and my grandmother would briskly cut in: "Stuart! No one wants to hear about the war!" so other agendas were at work as well.

William

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my mother tells me that my grandfather was of the belief that had you been there (western front, Italy) you didn't need to talk about it as the experience was mutually understood and if you hadn't been there was no point because you couldn't understand it. that said I wish he had said a bit more it would have made my researches a bit easier

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No one understands what you went through and no one cares (Civvies that is)

Fred Greaves VC said 'Perhaps it is better that all those places are forgot. And we thank God that we got away safe and are able to pray for those, our friends and mates, who never returned'

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I'm not quite sure that I can accept the 'nobody is interested unless you have done it line.' If that is so, what is the point of all the museums & publications trying to explain what fighting in a war was like. Might as well close down the IWM; In Flanders Field Museum; the museum where I feel honoured (yes, honoured) to work; etc. Might as well recycle all the thousands of books written about warfare through the ages. So, the odd person's eyes glaze over when the minutiae of service life is mentioned - but what about the greater number who will listen, ask sensible questions & show respect to the speaker. I can understand people not wanting to talk because (from personal experience - but not in a war situation) the brain tries to dismiss personal tragedy & trauma, so pushes such events to the far recesses, but to say 'if you ain't done it it means nothing to you' just doesn't, to me, seem right.

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Maybe there was a certain amount of the British stiff upper lip , not meaning this in any bad way perhaps if they had talked about it , it would have left them feeling emotionally open, it was still certainly a time when men kept themselves to themselves and didn't wear there hearts on there sleeves like we do today .I expect there could also have been the reason of trying to protect loved ones from the truth. Interesting about old comrades talking to each other about there experiences when meeting up, could this have acted like some sort of self therapy for them ?

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To all those who state their Grandfather, Father, Great Uncle etc never spoke of their war. This maybe not correct! This usually only applied to their loved kilth and kin and to those who never experienced what they did.

These same men often spoke about their experiences but only to those who went through the meat grinder alongside them! What do you think they spoke about when together in their unit associations or Legion/Returned Service Branches. Comrade to comrade, mate to mate anything and everything was discussed but to loved mother, wife, daughter, son, civvy down the pub, rarely!!

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I think that it is also a question of "Why did we not talk to them" I suspect that the vast majority of veterans had much more pressing things to think about in the 1920`s - 1930`s for instance than to relive their experiences, the vast majority of which would no doubt be quite mundane anyway. It seems that it is only when we suddenly realize that the veterans of both wars are "fading away" that we take an interest in their experiences and as an example the BBC Peoples War 1939 - 1945 provided an excellent platform for the recording and preservation of WW2 stories through the eyes of those who ere actually there. If such a platform had been available for the experiences of the WW1 veterans then I am sure the historical record would have been greatly enhanced.

Norman.

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Nicely put, Ed. People who haven't been in the situation can't possibly understand- they certainly can't understand the black humour that evolves as a way of protecting oneself from the horrors of the past. I've never talked about it with any either of my wives (that's one after the other- I'm not a polygamist!) family members, or strangers (and one or two of you who've 'been there' will probably understand how difficult it's been to actually write this, though in a way the anonymity of the internet makes it much easier). You can't tell people you've not slept properly for thirty years because every time the light goes out and you close your eyes your brain wakes up and replays key incidents over and over again. Your old mates and other old soldiers know exactly what you're talking about because most of them are the same.

Combat brings out an intensity of emotion that is almost impossible to describe or explain, but for those who've been through it, no explanation is necessary. Without sounding melodramatic or morbid, how an earth can you tell people you spent over an hour on your hands and knees in long grass trying to find all the bits from your pal's head, or watched somebody literally shovel up the remains of someone who was too close to high explosive! The terrible duty of visiting the parents of one of your section, an only son who was killed, and answering their questions, all the time knowing that for their comfort you couldn't tell them the whole story, giving them a 'sanitised' version. You can't explain to outsiders the feelings that you have for the others in your section after a hard firefight- they'd take it the wrong way. How rapidly intense fear becomes intense elation as the training kicks in and the surreal effects it brings about. The violent concussion and vivid purple flashes of mortar rounds and the purple-red of RPG rockets exploding all around you in the dark and trying in terror to burrow into solid concrete, wondering, 'Why me! What have I done!'. The reassuring pat on the shoulder from my corporal lying next to me and suddenly all felt calm and almost dreamlike- (God bless you, Mick if you ever read this.) I have an undying memory of firing a machine gun, watching the tracer ricocheting up into the air around the target, but not hearing the sounds of the rounds going off, or the incoming fire, but clearly hearing the bolt travelling backwards and forwards in slow motion inside the receiver like some sort of metronome- it would cost a fortune to buy illegal substances to replicate that! Ed mentioned socks- for me the greatest thing in the World was a clean pair of sheets on a bed, closely followed by being able to actually sit at a table and eat a meal, knowing that I'd actually get time to finish it. The smell of newly-mowed grass was another great. Good times and bad, but I'd do it all again.

When my Father was alive he never missed a reunion of the Glider Pilot Regiment and if I was home on leave always wanted me to attend wearing my uniform. I know now, all these years later why he wished me to do this, as it brought about an instant acceptance from these veterans of the airborne landings, who then felt comfortable talking about their war with an 'intruder' in their midst. I've never been to a reunion organised by any of my old units, but as I'm now in contact with dozens of old mates thanks to Facebook, will go to one next year. My son will come with me, but I'll not ask him to wear his uniform, because I know that they'll accept him as part of their family too.

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So, if people don't talk about 'it' - being under fire in combat conditions - how are the rest of us mean't to understand? I'm not trying to be deliberately provocative (nor was my earlier post on this thread), but (I'm guessing here) more regular contributors on this forum have not been under fire than have & I would love to know who we are to learn from if not those who have.

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So, if people don't talk about 'it' - being under fire in combat conditions - how are the rest of us mean't to understand? I'm not trying to be deliberately provocative (nor was my earlier post on this thread), but (I'm guessing here) more regular contributors on this forum have not been under fire than have & I would love to know who we are to learn from if not those who have.

When I get to 90, I will write down my memoirs then. If you want to understand - join up.

There are things I have not even told my close family about and no doubt many are like me.

Maybe you could learn how to kill people, to be terrified or frightened or or or.....................................

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I think that it is also a question of "Why did we not talk to them" I suspect that the vast majority of veterans had much more pressing things to think about in the 1920`s - 1930`s for instance than to relive their experiences, the vast majority of which would no doubt be quite mundane anyway. It seems that it is only when we suddenly realize that the veterans of both wars are "fading away" that we take an interest in their experiences and as an example the BBC Peoples War 1939 - 1945 provided an excellent platform for the recording and preservation of WW2 stories through the eyes of those who ere actually there. If such a platform had been available for the experiences of the WW1 veterans then I am sure the historical record would have been greatly enhanced.

Norman.

Why did we not talk to them? It's a very good question. My mother oft said in the year or two before she died that she wished she had talked to granddad about the war. She was the closest to him of the four children he had but she said it just wasn't done - to quiz your parents - especially about their past. He didn't talk to any of his children about the war. However, he did talk to my grandma but I don't know if that was because she asked him or he gave the information voluntarily. I have a feeling, knowing grandma, it was the former.

As a kid, I had a fascination about the war and desperately wanted to ask him questions about his experiences and would have too but it was forbidden because he had been paralysed in a road accident and was hospitalised until his death 4 years later. He could communicate by writing with the one hand that worked but I was forbidden by grandma, to get him over-excited. However, she did her very best to answer my questions. I am now thankful that I asked the questions, got answers and that I can still recall the information.

All the things grandma told me I naturally assumed my mother already knew and again it wasn't until a few years before my mother died and she had asked me to try and find out somehow what had happened to him and we were talking about him...it transpired she really hadn't known much at all except his regiment, battalion, he had joined underage two weeks into the war, had been a POW and was captured somewhere near Arras. She didn't know the stuff grandma told me so it led to some interesting conversations between us and that she wasn't very old when she died and her death was incredibly sudden, I'm glad we had the chance to have those conversations and at least she knew why they never ever had turnips in the house!!

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Whenever people ask me I change the subject, like Ed said earlier, unless you've been there you can never know or understand what is coming back at you.

Many years ago as a young Bootneck home on leave my schoolmates used to ask where I'd been and what I'd been up to and I used to freely chat about it. But at that stage of my career I was only talking about going to this country or that, or doing this course or exercise and hadn't really had any active service experience (that came later). Yet even then they were either unable to comprehend what I was saying to them or thought I was boasting, even though it was always them that had asked. It would all have been pretty pointless telling them anything of my active service experiences.I similarly never ever told my wife or family in order not to worry them, probably the same as a great many blokes.

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My father enlisted in 1924 with the R.W.F. was a reservist when war broke out in 1939, he served with No.1 Commando (204 Military Mission and 142 Commando, India, China and Burma) only mentioned his service a hand full of times and never in great detail, I learnt more about his service when I found his hidden diary, and after he died received his service records. I also belong to the Commando Veterans Association and It seems that they also never or rarely talked about their activities during their war. I personally don't think It was a matter that It was of "no interest" to others but more of what they had seen and done, as unbeknown to me, my mother in later years said that he had war related nightmares through his life.

Kevin

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Wow! Allow me to intervene folks! Many thanks for the honesty in all the replies to this post.

I'll be honest and admit I had to ask the question because it made no sense to me for my ancestors not to talk about all there adventures abroad.

But maybe in hindsight I was wrong, these adventures were forced upon them and they would much rather have been at home with there family & friends. I began my family research in 2010 after returning from Germany and wanted to know if I was the only one who served.

I signed up in 2002 and was working in a pastry factory, but after hearing what happened in New York during 9/11 I felt an urge to help in any way I could. I signed up and went to Catterick and after many a beating and kicking I passed basic training and went off to London to join Nijmegen Company.

Obviously I was Grenadier guards and for the next Five years I found myself bounced from ceremonial, exercise and full on operational duty in Iraq.

My marriage fell apart, I loved my family, but I'll openly admit I loved my regimental duties more and that's where it went wrong. So, I transferred to the Royal Engineers and spent Two years with them learning bridge building, demolitions, mine field clearance and all manner of other things.

I've seen my friends with limbs off and seen incoming fire and the panic/frustration that turns into anxiety, it's all so very familiar.

Last year I tried to rejoin through the Reserve, but was classed as medically rejected due to a bit of depression... Funny really as I'm perfectly fine, we all go through low mood even when serving. We just get on with it.

I was a good NCO and feel very proud to have served for Eight years and I tell my kids everything because I want them to know that when I went in, I was a different man than I am today, but although I may be very damaged, I still love them and I try my best to make them understand that the world can be a very horrible place.

Just expect no plan to survive first contact and if it goes pear shaped then just improvise! It all turns out in the end. :)

I haven't explained everything that happened to us, but It felt great to write something down and not talk to the point of loosing it... Thank you. :)

Keep the stories coming! Talk about it as it's better out than in as my gran used to say!

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Hello

Maybe its because we were only kids, and that generation thought it was an in appropriate conversation to have with a seven year old.

I can assure you they spoke about it, but to each other. Who remembers in the early sixties all those old chaps around town with missing arms and legs, I do! not something you see so much today.

I also remember going out on a Sunday lunch time with Mum and Dad to the local club, and all the old limbless ex service men standing at the bar talking about the laughs they had had, and horror's they had seen.

They spoke abut it alright, but not to me co's I was seven.

Ray

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To all those who state their Grandfather, Father, Great Uncle etc never spoke of their war. This maybe not correct! This usually only applied to their loved kilth and kin and to those who never experienced what they did.

Hello Chris,

Did not read your post before writing my own, but think we are both on the same song sheet.

Thanks

Ray

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