cianharte55 Posted 5 September , 2014 Share Posted 5 September , 2014 Hi all, I am somewhat new to the interpretation of primary source military documents. I was wondering when a medal index card has two regimental numbers on the one card, what does that mean? Does it mean the person in question could have had two stints within the military at different times or are new regimental numbers issued when said person moves to a new battalion and/or regiment. The person in question is a Thady Crefin. His particular card shows that he was within the Connaught Rangers when issued the no. 6367. On the following line it shows him as still within the Connaught Rangers but now he has the number: 35062. Thanks for any help. Cían Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 5 September , 2014 Share Posted 5 September , 2014 Territorial men were renumbered in 1917. http://www.1914-1918.net/renumbering.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 5 September , 2014 Share Posted 5 September , 2014 1917 T.F. numbers were usually 6 digits but in any case the Connaught's didn't have any T.F. battalions. You'd need to check the Medal Rolls to confirm his battalion(s) - you can pay for access to the rolls here http://www.nmarchive.com/ Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cianharte55 Posted 5 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2014 Thanks for the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 6 September , 2014 Share Posted 6 September , 2014 Cian, Was Thady related to James? http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/49349/CREFIN,%20J New numbers were issued to Connaught Rangers post war. They were in the range 32000 +. This is one of those numbers and so seems to indicate continued service after the war ended. His MIC indicates service with the 1st Battalion. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cianharte55 Posted 6 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2014 Hi John, Yes, James Crefin was his brother. Thanks for the help. I take it you looked at Thady's MIC, did you manage to decipher the red writing on the lower part of the card? I can make out 1st Battalion Connaught Rangers, but other than that the writing is difficult for an untrained eye to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 6 September , 2014 Share Posted 6 September , 2014 Cian, "O.C. 1st Conn. Rang. fwds. nom. roll of indiv. entitled to medals. 26/5/21." Officer Commanding 1st Battalion Connaught Rangers forwards nominal roll of individuals entitled to medals. 26/5/21. My understanding, and I am no expert on the process of distributing campaign medals, is that someone, possibly Thady himself or his next of kin, applied for his medals in 1921. You would normally see this notation on an officers MIC as they had to apply for medals. The other ranks did not, the medals were normally issued to each man who served, and so I find this note on the MIC unusual. Do you know anything about Thady post war? Any details might help to explain why the OC had to do this in Thady's case. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 6 September , 2014 Share Posted 6 September , 2014 In terms of understanding what may be on a medal index card, you'll get no better information than on this link. http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/interpretmic.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 6 September , 2014 Admin Share Posted 6 September , 2014 "O.C. 1st Conn. Rang. fwds. nom. roll of indiv. entitled to medals. 26/5/21." Officer Commanding 1st Battalion Connaught Rangers forwards nominal roll of individuals entitled to medals. 26/5/21. My understanding, and I am no expert on the process of distributing campaign medals, is that someone, possibly Thady himself or his next of kin, applied for his medals in 1921. You would normally see this notation on an officers MIC as they had to apply for medals. The other ranks did not, the medals were normally issued to each man who served, and so I find this note on the MIC unusual. Not at all unusual, it confirms this man was serving in the 1st Connaught Rangers on 26/5/21. The medals were sent to the last known (to the Army) address of those soldiers who had been demobilised and were distributed though the appropriate Records Office. In this instance the 1st Bn was in India therefore where a soldier was still serving and overseas the C.O. submitted a list as above. Where this is useful is that the MOD may still hold his service record (though I'm not sure about Irish Regiments) http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html Although there were no TF units in Ireland his brother James appears to have served in the militia and then in the 4th Special Reserve Bn enlisting in January 1913, he had the 4 digit number 4672 which he retained when he went to France with the 2nd Battalion on 7th October 1914. Probably Thady's first number was allocated the same way. It is rare to see these two numbers but a quick search I found one other soldier with a similar pair of numbers who had the same annotation on his mic.( He has two cards Pte 4341,35053 - indexed on Ancestry as 'NoInitials Bird' and Peter Bird without the annotation). I have no specialist knowledge of the Regiment and renumbering in the 320 series but my understanding was the Connaught Rangers were, along with the rest of the Army renumbered in 1920 and issued seven digit numbers in the series 7143001- 7177000 until disbandment in 1922. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cianharte55 Posted 7 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Fantastic info guys! Appreciate the input greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Ken, As far as I know the MOD do also hold the Irish Regiment service records. Your post also confirms that Thady was probably with the 1st Battalion in India when the mutiny occurred in June 1920. Thanks for clarifying this. Most of the mutineers have the 5 digit number beginning with 3 on their MIC, e.g. - Description: Medal card of Buckley, John J Corps Regiment No Rank Connaught Rangers 6723 Private Machine Gun Corps 162451 Private Connaught Rangers 35254 Private Medals forfeited. Description: Medal card of Hawes, Joseph Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Munster Fusiliers 7902 Private Connaught Rangers 35178 Private Sentenced to death, commuted to life. Description: Medal card of Hynes, Patrick Corps Regiment No Rank Leinster Regiment 4506 Private Worcestershire Regiment 64525 Private Labour Corps 576651 Private Connaught Rangers 32383 Private Sentenced to death, commuted to life. I assume these numbers were added to the MIC's when it was decided that they would forfeit their medals. The Connaughts were also renumbered in 1920 with the rest of the Army as you said, e.g. - Description: Medal card of Egan, Eugene Corps Regiment No Rank Connaught Rangers 6141 Private Connaught Rangers 7143904 Private Connaught Rangers 32386 Private John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickLeeds Posted 7 September , 2014 Share Posted 7 September , 2014 Hello. There is a pension application file held on Thady Crefin on the Ireland Military Archives site that states he took part in the Connaughts' mutiny in India in 1920. (Click on the pdf link) http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/detail.aspx Mick. (Just out of interest, Taunagh/Riverstown is where my GG Grandfather was born before his family came to England in the 1840's ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cianharte55 Posted 8 September , 2014 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2014 Hi Mick, Thanks for that link, greatly enhances his story I am trying to reconstruct. Are there any vestiges of your family still in the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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