224th siege battery, RGA, sep1917

[Shaun1983]

Friends,

I wonder if anybody can help at all. I have been researching a relative of mine, gunner william thomas robinson, 133820, of the 244th siege battery, royal garrison artillery. I think i may have come to a dead end...

I have successfully found the war graves info, killed 13th sep 1917, buried in artillery wood, but am struggling to find anything about his whereabouts in his last few days. There doesnt seem to be much info available on the 224th, was it broken up? Can anybody help at all please?

Many thanks in advance,

Shaun

[ororkep]

Welcome to the forum Shaun,

You appear to be slightly mixing up 224 and 244 Batteries in your post. CWGC shows he served in the latter battery.

79 HAG WD extract 13.9.17. This is the higher formation 'Heavy Arty Group' 244 came under control of at the time. Unfortunately there is no surviving official WD for 244.

HQ position Canal Bank, Ypres. 244 & 210 (SB’s) suffered casualties, the former 8 killed and 4 wounded & 210 3 killed and 1 wounded. Two guns were damaged & returned to workshops, 210 having the gun smashed & 244 trail splintered.

The group was under temporary command of Major P. Doig. 79 HAG war diary can be found at NA ref WO95/477. The armament of 244 at the time was 4 x 6in Howitzers (26cwt).

Rgds

Paul

[rflory]

Shaun: Do you mean 224th Siege Battery (title) or 244th Siege Battery (text)?

The war diary for 224th Siege Battery for September 1917 is missing but on 31 August 1917 the battery was at Bois Confluent (O73.85.85) and on 1 October 1917 it was at Potije (I 43.65.15) near Passchendaele.

[Shaun1983]

Thank you so much chaps. Sorry for the error, i did mean 244th.

This is fascinating, i'll check out the Major P. doig 79 HAG war diary asap.

Thanks again,

Shaun

[derekspiers]

244 SB served in 90 Brigade from Nov 1917 to the end of the War. It features prominently in a book called Nine Days by

Arthur Behrend written in 1921. N & M Press about £11.

This book primarily deals with the chaotic retreat back through Bapaume in March 1918 but includes a brief history of each of the four SBs including 244 and my grandfathers unit 95 SB, hence my knowledge of 244.

[Shaun1983]

Thanks again chaps...

Could anybody help me making sense of a 'burial return' sheet please? The name of cemetry is Artilery Wood, the form header states map sheet 28.6.something.something.6.8.

The column 'map ref where body found' states G.19.d.9.7... Now is this where the body was originally found? Or the old burial ground?

Also, does anybody know the name of a trench map that would show this location?

Sorry for all the questions!

Thanks again,

Shaun

[ororkep]

Shaun,

I read it as C19d.9.7 is where he was originally buried and moved from

try this link:

http://library.mcmaster.ca/maps/ww1/ndx5to40.htm

You require Sheet 28 NW, then C19 ; comprehensive instructions for use are on the site, you will soon get the hang of it. It's a little forward (East) of where the HAG HQ was positioned at Canal Bank and North of Ypres.

Rgds

Paul

[Shaun1983]

Thanks so much Paul. Great website. Will let you know how i get on...

Thank you.

[Deb R]

On 03/09/2014 at 04:19, ororkep said:

Welcome to the forum Shaun,

You appear to be slightly mixing up 224 and 244 Batteries in your post. CWGC shows he served in the latter battery.

79 HAG WD extract 13.9.17. This is the higher formation 'Heavy Arty Group' 244 came under control of at the time. Unfortunately there is no surviving official WD for 244.

HQ position Canal Bank, Ypres. 244 & 210 (SB’s) suffered casualties, the former 8 killed and 4 wounded & 210 3 killed and 1 wounded. Two guns were damaged & returned to workshops, 210 having the gun smashed & 244 trail splintered.

The group was under temporary command of Major P. Doig. 79 HAG war diary can be found at NA ref WO95/477. The armament of 244 at the time was 4 x 6in Howitzers (26cwt).

Rgds

Paul

Paul I realise this is an old post which I just chanced across while in search of puzzle pieces of my own ancestor my great grandfather Albert Edward Clark his only surviving records listed under Edward Clark.  So with the few records I do have and with help from this forum we were able to find Teds listing when he was wounded in sept 1917 he was a gunner with RGA but as no records survive to say which unit he was with we've been just putting a few possible scenarios together.  According to family members including Teds only surviving son Ted was the sole survivor of a shelling, assuming he meant those he was on the guns with.  Two possibilities were those mention the 244 mentions 8 deaths but only 7 are listed with the war graves.  When Ted was injured he was originally left for dead and was only discovered later when he was seen to move.  We aren't even sure if this was the same day or what time period passed.  Or he could be the one wounded of the 210.  These are only two possibilities of course.  Ted was wounded with a large shell splinter that pierced his hip down into his thigh.  It seems once he recovers he spent a short period with Clyde fire command before being transferred to the labour corps.  Ted survived the war and migrated to Australia in 1927 with the first 7 of his 9 children including my grandfather who was his eldest son.  

 

Is there any more information you might have on the 244th and the 210 that might rule them out as possibilities?  Going by the wounded list for Ted on the 15th of October I'm told his injury would have been around a month earlier give or take a couple of days. 

 

Blessings

Deb 

Edited 18 January , 2018 by Deb R

[ororkep]

Deb,

Unfortunately I have no other information other than in the post above that would assist your search to verify 139450 was in either of those batteries for certain. I'm not sure just what you are expecting to find but I will save you some time and tell you he is not mentioned either in the 20 SB nominal. Nor on any others that I hold which is a extensive collection.

I think you should be paying more attention to his service number block. Fact: you know he was a qualified signaller and his  block is mostly made up of men with such qualifications. Therefore personally I think it unlikely he would ever have been a gun detachment member 'on the guns'!

If it were me I would be spending a day going through the Stroud newspaper archives first before attempting to look through all the other 100 plus batteries that were also at Ypres and contact extended family to try and find more information or photographs.

Paul

[Deb R]

Thanks for tips Paul I'm just waiting for my great uncle Fred's grandaughter to return from holiday as she generally she looks after Fred ... Fred is Teds youngest son and hope to go visit and see what else he might remember.

 

as I'm fairly new to all of this how do I go about checking the newspaper?  Is there a website I go to?  This is one area I've not looked at before. 

 

blessings

deb 

[Deb R]

On 17/01/2018 at 04:06, ororkep said:

Deb,

Unfortunately I have no other information other than in the post above that would assist your search to verify 139450 was in either of those batteries for certain. I'm not sure just what you are expecting to find but I will save you some time and tell you he is not mentioned either in the 20 SB nominal. Nor on any others that I hold which is a extensive collection.

I think you should be paying more attention to his service number block. Fact: you know he was a qualified signaller and his  block is mostly made up of men with such qualifications. Therefore personally I think it unlikely he would ever have been a gun detachment member 'on the guns'!

If it were me I would be spending a day going through the Stroud newspaper archives first before attempting to look through all the other 100 plus batteries that were also at Ypres and contact extended family to try and find more information or photographs.

Paul

Paul - should I be looking for something more like this then if he was more likely to have been using his signaller qualification?  we had talked about looking at his service number more on the other thread as well.  Also as his medal card lists him as a gunner as does the list when he was wounded,  does that not necessarily mean he was on the guns? I ask only as his son seemed to think he was?  Do forgive my ignorance as I'm in totally unfamiliar territory :-) 

 

Edited 18 January , 2018 by Deb R
Add photo

[ororkep]

Deb,

His rank was Gunner but his qualification was Signaller and in my opinion it is in this latter capacity that he would have been employed in any battery.

Several men in his number block were in 365 SB going on to 244 SB. The book ‘The Gambardier’ is written under an alias by a then Officer of 244. It describes in graphic detail exactly what happened on 13.9.17. The BC Post was involved which is where a Signaller may have been on duty.

Paul

[Deb R]

8 hours ago, ororkep said:

Deb,

His rank was Gunner but his qualification was Signaller and in my opinion it is in this latter capacity that he would have been employed in any battery.

Several men in his number block were in 365 SB going on to 244 SB. The book ‘The Gambardier’ is written under an alias by a then Officer of 244. It describes in graphic detail exactly what happened on 13.9.17. The BC Post was involved which is where a Signaller may have been on duty.

Paul

Thank you very much appreciate your reply I must get myself a copy of this book.  I've written to a Gloucestershire researcher that's helped in the past to get her help looking at the Stroud newspapers.  She found an old story in there of Teds (and mine) ancestors on his grandmother  Harriet née  Moore side  (a waterman family) that had drowned aboard their Barge the Betsey in 1797, so I'm hopeful she can point me in the right direction.

 

its been an interesting learning curve.

 

blessings

Deb

[Deb R]

Researcher is going to check Stroud newspapers for me.

 

blessings

deb 

Edited 20 January , 2018 by Deb R
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