Help with Service record card info

[Nick Smith]

Hi, as a complete novice the attached service card doesn't mean a lot to me, I know once before when I posted something similar I got replies that contained considerably more information than looked possible from so little raw data, so I am hoping some kind person may be able to fill in details that look a little cryptic to me to say the least.

The record is of a Lance Corporal William B [bernard] Devery [1886-1954 born in Cork, Ireland] who served with the ASC (last known record from 1911 census was that he was a 'rough rider' in the 48 Company ASC based at South Hill barracks Chatham.

There is a family tale that he was called back from service (on his way to India??) when his wife died in childbirth in 1919. I don't know if this is possible or likely and whether any record of this would be made.

Thanks to anyone who has taken the time to read this and respond.

Nick

[KevinBattle]

Wow! He looks to be among the very first to have arrived in France on 6th August, just 2 days after War had been declared.

You'll see his rank as a Driver in the ASC, with whom he was awarded the 1914 Star and the clasp and rosette emblem for the medal strip when not wearing the actual medals.

He would have been attached to the HQ of the 3rd Infantry Brigade.

He later transferred to the Royal Engineers, the WR prefix denoting he was involved with Waterways or Railways, maybe a clue in his civilian employment?

Ah! 1911 census shows a William Devery, 28 and married (into the Pinder family?) as a motor lorry driver, brother Hurburt (Herbert) at Stayley Road, Mossley, Burnley.

Is that him?

If so, he shows up as a very naughty boy in the 1901 Census, but he obviously learnt his lesson and made good of himself.

Herbert Leo went into the Navy and died in 1970 in Grimsby, so he stayed close to the sea.

There is a William Bernard Devery born 1887 in Ireland into what seems to be a military family (father Bernard born in India) who in 1911 Census describes himself as a rough rider with 48 Company ASC in Chatham, Kent, married 1905. That fits with the WB initials, I was thrown initially by him being shown as dying in Birr, Ireland in 1907.

William subsequently moved to the Machine Gun Corps, and appointed as a Lance Corporal, so his abilities were recognised.

In fact he was an Acting Corporal, which is how his British War and Victory medals would be inscribed round the rim, showing MGC service and highest rank achieved.

It looks as if he had 2 clasps with the MGC which could be shorthand for being Mentioned in Despatches twice....

For some reason it appears he lost his full fitness for service in the front line, usually wounds, gassing or serious illness, impaired eyesight or hearing perhaps, and was transferred to the Labour Corps. I confess to not knowing what the RM prefix might indicate, but the 6 figure unique Service Numbers (as opposed to the repeated numerical sequences for Regimental/Battalion numbers) were only introduced in about 1916, so he was with the ASC until after they had been introduced.

It also looks as if he survived past 1918, and there is the possibility that another Medal Index card might exist with his initials shown as D B....

If this is a relative, I hope his medals still exist in the family.

Does the family have strong NZ links?

There is this man

DEVERY, GEORGE THOMAS. Rank: Driver. Service No: 11/2087. Date of Death: 26/09/1918.

Regiment/Service: New Zealand Field Artillery 2nd Sect. Div. Ammunition Col.

Grave Reference: XIII. E. 8. Cemetery:GREVILLERS BRITISH CEMETERY.

Additional Information: Son of Mrs. C. Devery, of Wainui Beach, Gisborne, New Zealand.

Now, wait for someone who knows what they are talking about to arrive!

[Stebie9173]

RM Labour Corps = Royal Marine Labour Corps.

This was formed in February 1917 from 35 (Naval) Company Army Service Corps and 36 (Naval) Company Army Service Corps - they worked at the ports unloading ships. They would have worked in conjunction with the Inland Waterways and Docks Department (i.e. barges and canals) of the Royal Engineers (the number WR/293353) falls within the range of numbers allocated to the IW&D. He may have been officially in the Royal Engineers but attached to or working in conjunction with the RMLC at one of the ports.

The Machine Gun Corps number seems to date from about August/September 1919.

I don't think anyone in the Army was officially in France as early as 6th August 1914 - I would suggest that the date may be 16th August 1914, more in line with the rest of 3rd Infantry Brigade and 1st Division.

Steve.

[horatio2]

William Bernard DEVERY served as Deal/13297(S) in the Royal Marine Labour Corps (Old Formation) and was transferred to RE IWT on 23 May 1918.

[Nick Smith]

Thanks KevinBattle and Stebie9173, very useful information, I'll see if I can match the info up to the record card (some is obvious now you've siad this but other bits still need interpreting for novices!) In the bottom right hand corner it looks like it says " *Clasp 2/1851 Shows D.B." Translation anyone?

Is it possible to work out when he joined the Machine gun corp?

William Bernard DEVERY served as Deal/13297(S) in the Royal Marine Labour Corps (Old Formation) and was transferred to RE IWT on 23 May 1918.

HI Horatio, sorry for my lack of knowledge 'served as Deal/13297 (s)' - is that Deal the town (only 5 miles from me actually) and what is the (s) and I take RE to be Royal Engineers but IWT? (Just looked it up - Inland Water Transport) thanks - still curious about Deal though. Is it possible - armed with the above information - to work out where he would have served during the war.

[horatio2]

Men who served in the RMLC were 'borne on the books' of the RMLI Depot at Deal, Kent, which also acted as Divisional HQ for the RMLC. They were given register numbers in the series Deal/8000(S) to Deal/15955(S) - the (S) standing for short service (duration of the war).

The RMLC (Old) had men employed at Rouen, Le Havre, Truville, Calais, Boulogne, Dunkirk, St Valery, Cherbourg, Dieppe and other ports. His place of duty may be recorded in his RMLC papers at Kew:-

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4119892

The RMLC was formed in February 1917 from ASC companies, as described, but it also recruited widely, from men over 41 years of age, in the English ports

[KevinBattle]

In the bottom right hand corner it looks like it says " *Clasp 2/1851 Shows D.B." Translation anyone?

Already done: It looks as if he had 2 clasps with the MGC which could be shorthand for being Mentioned in Despatches twice....

[Stebie9173]

Clasp usually refers to the Clasp (and Rose) for the 1914 Star to show that he was "within range of the enemy field guns" on any date between 4th August 1914 and 22nd November 1914. As part of the Army Service Corps supply train for 3rd Infantry Brigade of 1st division he certainly would have been. The Clasp 2 reference would seem to be referrring to paperwork to confirm that fact.

In light of Horatio2's information I would suggest the following timeline:

1886: Born in Ireland

1904: Enlisted into the A.S.C. on 12 years terms, age 18 (the average age for enlistment)

1905: Married

1906: Described as a "Driver A.S.C." on 18-4-1905 when his son was baptised.

1911: Serving with 48 Company at Chatham

1912: Transferred to the Reserve, age 26

1914: Recalled from Reserve and posted to the A.S.C. supply train supporting 3rd Infantry Brigade ( http://www.1914-1918.net/1div.htm )

1914: Served in France and entitled to 1914 Star and Clasp

1917: Discharged from the A.S.C. having served 12+1 years, age 31

1917: Re-joined the forces in the R.M.L.C. (Navy)

1918: Transferred from the R.M.L.C. to the Royal Engineers for duty with the Inland Waterways on 23 May 1918.

1919: To Class Z Army Reserve, age 33

1919: Re-joined the Army in August/September 1919 and posted to the Machine Gun Corps

1919: Could have served in either the tribal regions of India and surroundings or with the expedition to Russia aiding the "White Russians" against the Bolsheviks.

The records highlighted by Horatio2 above should give some better dates, at least for the middle period.

Steve.

[kenf48]

I believe two 'roses' were issued one for the medal ribbon and one for the riband, but only one clasp (for the medal ribbon). It may be the reference is to the rose. MiD oak leaf is usually referred to emblems or 'emb' on the cards (again two were issued as above).

Ken

[tullybrone]

quote name="Stebie9173" post="2149136" timestamp="1409506013"]

PART EDIT

1917: Discharged from the A.S.C. having served 12+1 years,

Hi,

I thought that after Military Service Act 1916 all Time Expired Men were retained in service for the duration?

Regards

Steve Y

[Nick Smith]

Thanks everyone, very useful - as I suspected, far more information than the record initially seemed to contain.

Nick

[Stebie9173]

Ok, theoretically would have been eligible for discharge if the Military Service Act didn't men he was retained!

Steve.