Hospital ship help

[Guest patsymac]

Hi, looking at a war record for WW1 and have a note on the file that says "admitted to Hospital Ship Elyssia????" 19 Aug 1915 this was at Gallipoli. Can anyone help with the name of the Hospital ship please. I cant find anything online that helps

thanks

[Waddell]

Nothing definite, but is Elyssia actually Alaunia? There was a troop ship by that name at Gallipoli.

Scott

[Doc2]

Could it have been the Letitia, which was a hospital ship at Gallipoli? If you say the two names fast, they sort of sound the same. No other ship with that name or a name which sounds like Elyssia is on the list of hospital ships at Gallipoli.

[Doc2]

Could it have been the Letitia, which was a hospital ship at Gallipoli? If you say the two names fast, they sort of sound the same. No other ship with that name or a name which sounds like Elyssia is on the list of hospital ships at Gallipoli. The Massilia was a hospital ship with a similar name, but I have no evidence it was at Gallipoli-- entered service in May 1915.

[Jeff Pickerd]

The SS "Ulysses" was operating as a hospital ship from Anzac during August, have record of casualties being evacuated from Anzac on board this vessel on the 28th August. This would no-doubt be the hospital ship you are looking for.

Jeff

[Bennett]

Again a nothing definite guess, but the Essequibo was operating as a hospital ship along the Gallipoli-Mudros route and is mentioned in the book 'The Roses of No Man's Land', (Ian Macdonald) several times.

However, it was not a formal hospital ship, like say like the Rewa, but was one of the Black Ships that played a vital role in medical care and evacuation. Ralph

[kjharris]

Hi there everyone,

In looking at similar sounding names, the Gloucester Castle (previously known as Galician - and also spelt Gallicia) was at Gallipoli in August; also the HS Sicilia. PatsyMac, is it possible to post a picture of the file note you've seen?

Jeff, I do not have the Ulysses as a hospital ship at Gallipoli in 1915 on my extensive list of ships that actually were at the peninsula. Would appreciate a primary source reference please. I know that

http://www.gallipoli-association.org/Allied_Ships_Engaged.htm

lists it as a troopship in the Gallipoli campaign but this list includes ships that got no closer than Egypt.

regards

Kirsty

[alantwo]

Kirsty

Ulyssees arrived at Mudros on Saturday 7th August as a troopship with 2/4th Queen's West Surrey Regt, 1/4th Sussex Regt, Detachment 1/7th Welsh Fusiliers, Headquarters 160th Brigade and Signal Section. I do not have a date for when it left as yet.

Was it perhaps simply used in haste to aid evacuation of PastyMac's casualties on 19th August and on 28th August as Jeff mentions?

Regards

Alan

[Jeff Pickerd]

Kirsty,

My date of 28th August for evacuations from Anzac was wrong and should have been the 18th August, as follows.

From my recording of evacuations from Anzac of men of the 8th Light Horse Regiment, the first mention of the SS "Ulysses" occurs on Wednesday 18th August, Sgt E.M. Williams No.730 and LCpl C.G.T. Williams No.726 (2nd Reinf's) "A" Sqdn. Tpr's M. O'Donoghue No.633 "B" Sqdn and F.R.P. Wilson No.476 "C" Sqdn evacuated ill to hospital at Mudros aboard the SS "Ulysses".

Tpr Martin O'Donoghue's service papers record his departure from Mundros for Egypt on-board the "Ulysses" as the 21st August, arriving at Alexandria on the 25th.

On the 3rd September nine 8th men embark from Egypt for return to Australia on-board the SS Ulysses.

Jeff

[kjharris]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

It looks like Ulysses was used as a 'black ship', not a hospital ship then between Gallipoli and Mudros following the August stunt and as was remarked above, used to help with the evac of sick patients (rather than wounded). If it was a proper hospital ship, it would have had white livery and medical and nursing staff on board.

Had another thought. PatsyMac, what was the rank of the person you are looking at, and from where at Gallipoli?

If they were an officer, the Alaunia (mentioned by Scott) was used as an anchored hospital offshore from Cape Helles from May 1915 for R&R for nervy or rundown officers who needed a break for 24-48 hours, with decent meals and a shower/bath and a couple of good nights of sleep. It took other patients as well but that appears to have been its main role as time went by...

The Essequibo was pretty close to a hospital ship - but it was only in service from 2 September 1915. It had 16 nurses and accommodation for 42 officers, 249 cots and 298 berths.

cheers

Kirsty

[Guest]

I've come across a record of H.S.Masilia departing Suvla Bay Dec 4th 1915 arriving England New Years Day 1916.

 

best

Dave

 

Edited 17 December , 2019 by Guest

[MKC]

Jeff,

 

If not already on your list, you can add 928 Victor Abbey, 8 ALH, who was RTA aboard Ulysses from Suez on 3 September 1915, with a GSW right thigh. 

 

The men aboard for that voyage to Australia were wounded from a big mix of units: 8 ALH, 2 ALH, 3 & 12 Inf Bn, etc and their files are evenly divided with either 3 or 4 September as the embarkation date. Ship arrived Melbourne on 30 September. 

 

Mike

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

Thanks, yes I do have him recorded RTA on board the Ulysses on those dates. He was wounded in the right leg/thigh going out in A Sqdn at the charge at The Nek, but I been unable to establish which troop he was with as yet.

Have some other details of his service with 8th LH if you should wish to receive such.

 

Jeff

[MKC]

Thanks Jeff, for the offer. I'd actually be more interested in the names of the other 8 ALH men you have recorded for RTA on board Ulysses if that is not overstepping the mark, as it is the shipping aspects of service I've been researching.

 

Mike

 

 

[Jeff Pickerd]

Hi Mike,

That is quite a task you have set me! I have started a search of the over 2700 men who served with the 8th LH from 1914 to 1919; a great deal of the dates for RTA will have to be double checked, so it may be well after the Christmas/New Year before I can have a full list of names for you.

To date I have only gone through names up to the 8th Reinforcements of the Regiment, but it would seem the following dates would indicate the sailing of the Elysses to Australia -

3/9/1915

30/9/1915? Possibly the 3rd also. 

3/1/1916

3/11/1916? only one mention.

13/2/1917

15/2/1918

8/3/1918? Possibly the 18th.

18/3/1918

28/2/1918? Possibly 12 Dec.

18/1/1919 

Other later dates of sailing may emerge as I continue on through the lists.

Hope these early results may be of some assistance to you for the time being.

 

cheers,

 

Jeff

[MKC]

Gosh, Jeff!  I was referring to that particular voyage following your comment 'On the 3rd September nine 8th men embark from Egypt for return to Australia on-board the SS Ulysses' I would never expect you to go to so much trouble to extract info for all the voyages.

 

I have the following dates listed for Ulysses inbound to Australia from the work I've already done:

21/3/1915: Egypt to Aust

3/9/1915: Egypt to Aust

3/1/1916: Egypt to Aust

13/2/1917: UK to Aust

10/9/1917: UK to Aust

15/2/1918: Egypt to Aust

18/1/1919: UK to Aust

22/7/1919: UK to Aust

27/12/1919: UK to Aust

 

The date 8/3/18 or 18/3/1918 would not fit with a sailing date from Egypt of 15/2/1918 unless it is the voyage end date.

 

I've only got 17 men from 8 ALH listed on the voyage database, mostly on ships other than Ulysses, hence my interest in the names for that voyage in particular. 

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

[Jeff Pickerd]

Thanks Mike for the sailing dates, that will be a great help to confirming the actual  RTA of all of the 8th men. You may not wont the results of my search for the dates of RTA of men of the Regiment, but you have got me started on that search, so I must now continue it, and in doing so I will post the eventual results here.

 

Jeff

[MKC]

Hi Jeff,

 

Of course the information will be of assistance to me, and I look forward to you posting it here. I know what you mean about getting started and then wanting to finish it no matter what.

 

If I can assist, let me know.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

Since you have requested this, The following 11 men of the 8th LH returned to Australia on board the Ulysses 3/9/1915, arriving Melbourne, Victoria, 30/9/1915.

 

FAULKNER, John, James. No. 61. A Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

THWAITES, Robert. No. 183. A Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

TOWBRIDGE, Clarence, James. No. 510. B Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.  2nd RTA Ulysses 18/1/1919. 23rd Reinforcements, 13th LH.

MURTON, Dudley Arthur. No. 626. 1st Reinforcements, B Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

STAMMERS, Francis, Joseph. No. 679. 1st Reinforcements, B Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

DOWLING, Charles, Ware. No. 364. C Sqdn. WIA 28/6/1915.

KELSO, David, Leslie. No. 402. C  Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

GELL, Charles, Lewis. No. 513. C Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

CHAPMAN, Spencer, Bell. No.543.  B Sqdn. Invalid 14/7/1915.

REEVE, Arthur, Walter. No. 856. 4th Reinforcements, A Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

ABBEY, Victor, Wesley. No. 928. 5th Reinforcements, A Sqdn. WIA 7/8/1915.

 

This voyage I cannot accord with your list.

TAYLOR, Richard, Vernon. No. 2019. 9th Reinforcements, A Sqdn. Evacuated from Tripoli to Alexandria, 12/1/1919.

 

That will be it until next year. Best wishes for a Merry Christmas  and a Happy New Year.

 

Jeff

[MKC]

Thanks Jeff, very helpful.

 

Re 2019 Taylor: cannot see that trip in his file (NAA 1932307, page 10) only that he was admitted to 14 AGH at Port Said on 12 January 1919, after having left 8 ALH on 31 December 1918. The means of travel between the two locations ( 8 ALH were at Tripoli Beach, Lebanon) is not stated in his file, so you must have found the reference to Ulysses elsewhere. Presumably he had appendicitis, as that is what is listed as the reason for RTA aboard Kildonian Castle, embarking at Suez on 1 April 1919. Kildonian Castle had departed the UK on 21 March 1919, the voyage route being through the Med and Suez Canal to Australia.  

 

As far as I can see, Ulysses was on its way to the UK on 12 January 1919, but I don't know where from or where it was on that date. It must have arrived in the UK at most 4 days later as it departed the UK on 18 January 1919, to arrive in Melbourne on 10 March. Not sure of the steaming time between Alex and the UK, but the timing does seem a bit short. I'll need to investigate that one further.

 

Same same: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

I have completed my search of the records of the 8th LH men who returned to Australia onboard the “Ulysses” between 1914 - 1919, on the vessel sailing dates you have advised. My search has been derived from the work of Cameron Simpson with his, “ Biographical History of the 8th Light Horse Regiment AIF 1914-19. Magyar’s Boys”, alongside my recordings of the regiment, all of which was derived from the men’s service records from the Australian National Archives, Canberra. 

I will list in this post the voyages from 3-1-1916 to 18-1-1919, excluding the 15-2-1918 Egypt to Australia voyage, as there are a large number of names, which I will forward in a later post.

 

3-9-1916 -

BROWNE Herbert Boyle No. 24, 8th LH HQ.

JONES Norman No. 501, 8th LH MGSection.

SCOT Robert No. 724, 2nd Reinforcements (Rf), C Sqdn, 8thLH MGSection.

McLELLAN Danial Thomas No. 835 4th Rf, C Sqdn.

 

13-2-1917 - 

MURTON Dudley Arthur No. 626 1st Rf, B Sqdn.

GRIGGS Herbert Matthew No. 699 2nd Rf, A Troop, C Sqdn.

CLARK Harry Thomas No. 2042 14 Rf, 47th Bty, 12th FAB.

 

10-9-1917

CHRISTIAN Robert Leslie No. 1788 13th Rf. (Service records state Ulysses was HS A38).

 

18-1-1919

HEARN Richard No. 1828 13th Rf.

TOWBRIDGE Clarence James No. 510 B Sqdn. (Second voyage).

 

I have been unable to establish any 8th men returning on the voyages of 22-7-1919 or 27-12-1919.

 

Jeff

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

 

The 15-2-1918 voyage.

 

DALE John Charles Lionel No. 80 A Troop, A

McGUINNESS Eric Reagan No. 323 B Sqdn.

DANIEL George No. 367 Cpl. A Troop, C Sqdn.

COPE Robert No. 356 Sgt. C Sqdn.

McDONALD Alexander No. 423 C Sqdn.

LAXTON Alfred Lyle No. 731 2nd Rf, C Sqdn, 3rd Bn, Imp Camel Corps.

HARPER Ernest John No. 1043 7th Rf, A Sqdn.

NEWEY Gordon Charles Walter No. 1082 7th Rf, A Sqdn.

PODMORE William George No. 1119 8Rf, 3rd LHMG Sqdn.

TURNER Edward John No. 1121 8th Rf, C Sqdn.

DAWE William No. 1400 11Rf, 2nd LHMG Sqdn.

McKAY Charles No. 1427 11th Rf.

BEER Edgar Highet No. 1486 12th Rf.

HUNT Herbert James No. 1576 12th Rf.

McCLUSKEY George WilliamNo. 1597 12th Rf.

ROBB Ernest No. 2340 16th Rf.

BRYANT Thomas Gilbert 2nd Lieutenant, 20 Rf.

FRASER Malcom Campbell No.2995 22nd Rf. 

COBURN Robert Augustus No. 3173 25th Rf.

CAMERON  Donald No. 3354 28th Rf.

LEWIS Harry Glenelg No.3432 29th Rf.

CRAWFORD Robert No. 3504 30th Rf.

HOLMAN John Trannack No. 2661.

MOORE Frank No. 302. 4th LH to C Sqdn 8th LH.

NOSS Eric Walter No. 1726. 9th LH to A Sqdn 8th LH.

 

OK Mike, that is it of what I can find, there will probably be others, but unable to find names from the sources I have.

 

Hope this will be of assistance.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

 

Just a further note with regard to TAYLOR No. 2019 evacuated from Tripoli to Alexandria 12-1-1919. Cameron Simpson states that it was the “Ulysses”, but he gives no reference as to where he found that information. There is another 8th man evacuated to Alex from Tripoli on the same date, but no vessel named, CAMERON Hugh James No. 2932.

It is strange that Simpson names the Ulysses, he must have had some other information on Taylor to do so, I can’t see him just plucking the Ulysses as a random guess. From some of my research into 8th LH evacuations it would seem that Malta to the UK was about four days sailing.

 

Jeff

[Bryn]

What about HMHS 'Sicilia'? About 40 Anzac soldiers died aboard her during the campaign.

[MKC]

Hi Jeff,

 

Apologies for the delayed response - interesting data and much appreciated, thank you. Simpson is usually a good source and a very thorough researcher, so I agree that he has sourced that information from somewhere. 

 

Hi Bryn,

 

I have isolated only about 16 Australian deaths aboard Sicilia, so I'm curious where the figure of about 40 came from - can you enlighten me, please?

 

Thanks, Gents, the forum is a great avenue for bringing new and interesting information forward. 

 

Mike