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Michael

Help please

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Michael

Can you look at this with a fresh pair of eyes please. The wording I can't decipher is the bit at the bottom. Does it say RAF ? and what do you think that reference is to the roll ? i've been trying for a couple of days.

This is a 14/15 star roll by the way

Mick

post-31-1098705562.jpg

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Michael

I've got the answer now folks - yes it is RAF.

Mick

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GavinH

Mick,

RAF refers to Rank and File, rather than Royal Air Force. It means that he was commissioned from the ranks.

Gavin

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Michael

I've since found out that he joined the RFC and has an entry in AIR76. What you say sounds conceivable but if you are correct then I've had an incredible stoke of luck because there is no other reference to RAF or RFC on the MIC.

It is only because I was looking at RAF that I found Kyle Tallet's article on AIR76. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that the example he uses is the guy I've been looking at !

Mick

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GavinH

A strange coincidence, but I still think that 'RAF' stands for rank and file in this instance. If you look to the right of the note, there is an additional reference 'On R&F Roll, which definitely relates to commisioned other ranks. I've come across this reference a few times, and it is always on MICs of officers who had previously served in a theatre of war as an OR.

When did he join the RAF? Was it post war?

Regards

Gavin

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collectorsguide

THIS ABBREVIATION IS "ON R & F ROLL. THIS STANDS FOR "ON RANK AND FILE ROLL" THE CODE D/104/B SHOWS HE WAS COMMISSIONED FROM THE H.L.I.FOR FURTHER INFO SEE PAGES 384 TO395 OF "THE COLLECTORS GUIDE TO THE GREAT WAR"BEST WISHES, HOWARD

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collectorsguide

HAVE JUST MOVED IMAGE TO ONE SIDE AND SPOTTED RAF!!!! CAN CONFIRM UNITS SERVED AS 2/LIEUT E. KENT R AND RAF.COMMISSIONED FROM H.L.I.BEST W. HOWARD.

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Michael

He was in the RFC in 1917. I can't work out why his VM/BWM are impressed to the Buffs if his last unit was RAF. He is also on the Buffs officers' VM/BWM roll.

Could it be that he never went overseas as RFC/RAF ?

Mick

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GavinH
Could it be that he never went overseas as RFC/RAF ?

Could be. I have a Victory Medal to a man who served as a Serjeant in the Manchester Regiment, was commissioned into the RNAS as a Probationary Flight Officer in August 1917, and ended the war as a 2/Lieut in the RAF. His medal is named to the Manchester Regiment with the rank of Segt. I believe this is because he didn't serve in a theatre of war with the RNAS or RAF. It is technically possible that he qualified for a BWM with the RNAS, but I haven't checked this yet. It would make an interesting pair if he did!

I also have a Victory Medal to a man who served as a Segt. with the Ox & Bucks L.I., won the M.M., and was discharged in 1916. He re-enlisted into the RFC, served with them for a short period in France, and ended the war with the RAF. his medal is named to the RFC! Again, presumably because he did not serve overseas with the RAF. I still think it should be named to the Ox & Bucks L.I., and suspect he may have been issued two sets of medals. One by the Army, and one by the RAF.

Hope this helps!

Regards

Gavin

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Michael

Just realised that I'm talking a load of rubbish. His VM/BWM aren't inscribed to any units - he was a 2Lt. I was thinking of the Buffs VM/BWM roll.

Mick

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collectorsguide

DEAR MICHAEL,AS A GENERAL RULE OFFICERS ATTACHED TO RFC HAD NO UNIT ON BWM/VIC. OFFICERS COMMISSIONED DIRECTLY INTO RFC HAVE RFC ON PAIR. RAF CAN APPEAR ON PAIRS WHEN NO OVERSEAS/ ACTIVE SERVICE WAS ACHIEVED.SOME PAIRS ARE FOUND WITH RFC ON ONE MEDAL RAF ON ANOTHER .CONFUSED....SEE PAGE 262 OF COLLECTORS GUIDE FOR MORE INFO.THE UNIT ISSUING THE MEDALS WILL BE I/D BY THE CODE FOR THE BWM/VIC ON THE MIC. THESE CODES APPEAR ON PAGES 384/386 OF THE GUIDE. BEST W. HOWARD.

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Michael

Thanks Howard

You're absolutely correct of course. I looked at his file in AIR 76 yesterday and he was attached to the RFC / RAF rather than transferred.

I was eyeing up your book in the shop at Kew but they only sell them as a pair. Can they be purchased separately ?

Mick

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