15 April 1915: exact position of German gas front

[Yorke Scarlett]

Andi,

I know we are not in a position to know the exact wind direction/speed on 22nd April 1915 - but it seems to me that an even greater opportunity of German victory was in the offing by gaining a rapid crossing of the canal in the Steenstraat/Lizerne area. Another of histories - "What if!"

Maybe it was a case of a difficult obstacle to cross with the aid of weapon of unknown value at the time. Heavy responsibility for the Gas Pioneer Officer on the ground.

[Aurel Sercu]

Andi and Wayne,

Sorry if I repeat my question of some days ago.

But looking at the map posted by Cnock (# 40), do you think that we can conclude from the direction of the arrows marking the German advance , that the wind was North North West ? (I mean the arrows through the name "Steenstrate", before reaching the canal.

Aurel

[johnreed]

I have a DVD by Heinrich Billstein called "Ypres: The Gas Inferno" and in the film it states that the wind blew from the EAST on the 22nd April 1915. the gas was released at 5 pm.

John

[Terry_Reeves]

Ludwig Haber, son of Fritz Haber, in his book The Poisonous Cloud (1986) gives the wind direction from the north-east and the wind speed at 0.5 m/sec, (just over 1 mph).

His sources for wind direction are Colonel Mordacq, commanding the French 90th Brigade, in his book Drame de l' Yser and from GW Nicholson : The Canadian Expeditionary Force 1914-19.

The source for the wind speed is given as K Herber in Aufzeichnungen who was a gas observer, but Haber cautions that his report c 1937-38, was compiled from notes taken years earlier and these were not always reliable.

I would point out that the gas cloud front was not uniform and could be affected by ground temperature, making it rise or fall on different parts of the gas front. It was also affected by eddies, the shape of the ground - the gas having a tendency to gather in hollows, and it could also be impeded by close vegitation and groups of trees for instance.

TR

[Aurel Sercu]

Thanks, Terry and John,

From the "east" ? I find that extremely hard to believe. (The Germans at the western end would have been gassed by the gas released from the eastern end.

As to Mordacq and Nicholson, I'll see the books next week, and will find what his exact words were ...

North east is not impossible but I "prefer" (!) north northeast.

And yes, there are many factors that would influence the speed, and maybe (but less) the direction.

Aurel

[Aurel Sercu]

Just to say by know I can say that I learned (among other sources : Hanslian, "Gasangriff", 1934) that the wind came from NNE.

Aurel

[AOK4]

On 06/04/2015 at 14:57, bierast said:

Most interesting - having concentrated on gas operations on the XXVII.RK and XV.AK fronts, I had no idea that the army commander observed the attack on 22 April so closely. No doubt due to the duke's personal faith in Professor Haber's new weapon, the Royal Württemberg Army formed its own company of Stinkpioniere on 8 April, which became the 3. (württ.) Kompagnie / Pionier-Regiment Nr.35.

The Bavarian and Saxon armies made no such commitment - on the Bavarian side Crown Prince Rupprecht strongly opposed the introduction of poison gas on both practical and ethical grounds, and as Roman Catholics the Bavarians were also undoubtedly influenced by the public opposition of the Pope after the initial gas attacks. I have been unable to find evidence of the Saxon attitude, but since the Saxon royal house was likewise Catholic (the King's brother Prince Max having even taken holy orders and become a Jesuit!) and closely allied to the Bavarians and Austrians on many matters, there is good reason to suspect that King Friedrich August III was not supportive of gas warfare.

 

I'm sorry to revive this ancient topic, but because of an article about Stampkot Farm today on VRT, I started checking some elements. I think it is highly unlikely that Albrecht von Württemberg or any of his close high ranking officers were at Stampkot Farm to give the order for the attack on 22 April 1915. The farm was practically on the actual front line. A wooden observation tower is even mentioned (really? at the front line without being shot at by the allied artillery?).

 

Having found the chain of command Gefechtsstände (battle or advance headquarters) for the northern end of the attack, I wonder whether "Stampkot" should be the place west of Staden. This would make sense as it would be ideal to keep connection to the front and to the two involved Army Corps headquarters (XXIII Reserve Corps at Wynendaele Chateau and XXVI Reserve Corps at Rumbeke Chateau). It was also a small hill (42 metres) and one has an excellent view from there over the northern salient, especially if one would be on an observation tower (there are two German 1917 bunkers there, as described in my book "defending the Ypres Front").

 

Jan

[AOK4]

And what I thought has been confirmed. The battle headquarters of AOK4 was at Stampkot near Staden...

 

Jan