the-5th-kings Posted 3 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2014 His name and number are - Thomas Smith 202105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 3 August , 2014 Share Posted 3 August , 2014 I think the war diary said 41 K, 7 DoW, 7 missing. 55 in all. Would any one have any information or records of burials around that area at that time? Thank you Colin Do you know how I could find out who the other 6 missing men were. Its a good idea, Thank you. Hello Colin, I don't know if the following is what you meant, but the CWGC has recently released some burial information on soldiers who died in WW1. First you search for a soldier, then click on the details of the soldier you want, and lastly, scroll down to view the "CWGC archive online". Using information from this resource, it looks like that in the case of the 1/5th KLR, there were 5 men who were reburied from 15th to 17th October 1919. When they were found there were no crosses on their graves, and the means of identification given was that of their identity discs. In most, if not all the cases, their effects were then sent to base. This suggests to me that it is possible that they were found where they fell. There is only one soldier who seems to have been found near to the time of operations and buried accordingly- a Pte, Scragg. He was buried in Wiltje Farm Cemetery. I hope this helps. I have included a crop of a trench map from Jan 1918 (McMaister University), just to give you an idea of the general area where your man may have been. Regards, Chris *Edit- think I made a mistake with the map , apologies. I'll let you have a look into that one if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 3 August , 2014 Share Posted 3 August , 2014 (edited) Atkinson was recovered from 28.D.19.b.25.30 Birch from 28.D.19.d.10.50 Burbridge from 28.D.19.b.30.10 The area around Beck House / Iberian: Courtesy of IWM/WFA Mapping the Front - Ypres Phil Edit: all the above were 1/5th men for 20th Sept 1917, now in Dochy Farm Edited 3 August , 2014 by Phil Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 3 August , 2014 Share Posted 3 August , 2014 Chris thanks for that . I went through most who died that day and randomly looked at the archive info. Obviously I picked the wrong ones! Phil, do you nknow where Douchy Farm Cemetry is in relation to the trench map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 3 August , 2014 Share Posted 3 August , 2014 (edited) Dochy Farm Cemetery is about 1.5km East. I have plotted Atkinson's original grave (red marker) and Dochy Farm is where Haezeweidestraat meets Zonnebekestraat on the top left hand of the junction. Edit: If you use Firefox, this link should work. If you use IE, forget it. Edited 3 August , 2014 by Phil Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-5th-kings Posted 3 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2014 Dochy Farm also has unidentified 4 men of the King's Regiment and 1 Lieutenant buried there. Battalion unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 3 August , 2014 Share Posted 3 August , 2014 Nice one Phil! I got confused by 28c and 28NE for some reason. Colin, I don't know if it is too late now, but to help you narrow down your search I should have said that the men I found were: Cpl. Atkinson- Reburied in Douchy Farm Cemetery Rfn. Burbridge- as above Rfn Birch- as above Rfn. Leeson- Reburied in New Irish Farm Cemetery Rfn. Hulm- Reburied Tyne Cot Cemetery Rfn. Scragg- Buried in Wieltje Farm Cemetery There were also 1/6th, 1/7th, 1/8th, and 1/9th men as you have probably seen (same brigade). Also, unknown KLR men as noted. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-5th-kings Posted 4 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2014 Chris and Phil You have both given me a lot to work on. Can you explain the ref numbers, eg- Atkinson 28.D.19.b.25.30. I know it is were he was found but how do you work it out on the map. I take it the 5 found in 1919 were 5 of the missing 7. Do you also know when Rfn Scragg was found if it was near the time as he might be number 6 of the 7. Thank you Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 4 August , 2014 Share Posted 4 August , 2014 Dochy Farm Cemetery is about 1.5km East. I have plotted Atkinson's original grave (red marker) and Dochy Farm is where Haezeweidestraat meets Zonnebekestraat on the top left hand of the junction. Dochy farm.jpg Edit: If you use Firefox, this link should work. If you use IE, forget it. Thanks for that Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 4 August , 2014 Share Posted 4 August , 2014 The LLT has a very good explanation: http://www.1914-1918.net/trench_maps.htm Also, here: http://library.mcmaster.ca/maps/ww1/MapRefNo.htm Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-5th-kings Posted 4 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2014 Chris You were right about the LLT having a very good explanation. It is easy to understand when you have read this. Thank you Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 4 August , 2014 Share Posted 4 August , 2014 No problem, glad it was of use. Such a great site. Do you also know when Rfn Scragg was found if it was near the time as he might be number 6 of the 7. Re the above- Rifleman Scragg Died of Wounds. I would think that probably indicates that he was buried soon after in the nearest cemetery. Since he was not reburied, that must have been Wieltje (I think). The CWGC write-up for Wieltje says: "Wieltje Farm Cemetery was made and used by fighting units... in July-October 1917." That also ties in with the time frame we are looking at. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-5th-kings Posted 4 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2014 With the information I have been given I can try to work out who died, died of wounds and how was missing. I can also try to find who was found and where. I can only do this thanks to all the help and advice I have been given from all the comments. Thank you all Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 4 August , 2014 Share Posted 4 August , 2014 Colin, I don't know how easy it is going to be to split out the KiA, DoW and missing and put names to them. For instance, I have just been looking at my Situation Maps for around the 20th and although they are not precise, to me it looks like the three men I flagged up were buried on what was British held ground by the end of the 20th. Even men who went down in enemy held ground could be recorded as KiA if they were seen to fall. Missing men may have been killed, or taken prisoner, or just not locatable at the time the roll was taken and report was drawn up. You probably won't be far out, but I am working on a similar exercise for 2/10/18 and even with some additional info from the Red Cross Missing and Wounded List, I am struggling. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-5th-kings Posted 4 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2014 Phil I don't think it will be easy but I would still like to try, you never know what turns up. Do you think it would be possible for me to have a look at the situation maps you have. I will have to try the Red Cross List and see if there is any additional information that might help me. Thank you Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 4 August , 2014 Share Posted 4 August , 2014 Colin, PM me an email address, or you will find mine on my website (link below) and I'll send them over to you. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-5th-kings Posted 4 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 4 August , 2014 Thank you Phil Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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